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A sober call from Common Cause
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Feb 2, 2019 14:32:22   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
Just 6 states.

That’s all that stands between you and me and a disastrous Article V constitutional convention. An event unprecedented in U.S. history -- that would put every constitutional right we cherish under attack.

We have no choice but to immediately step up our grassroots response to defeat this effort.

Many constitutional experts believe this is the biggest present threat to our democracy -- and it’s happening right now, behind closed doors and out of the public eye.

The Koch Brothers & the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) are spending big money to lobby state lawmakers, demanding they support an Article V convention to radically reshape our nation. If we let them succeed, there’ll be little to stop them from writing their far right-wing agenda directly into our Constitution.

That could mean changing our First Amendment rights, like the right to free speech and assembly… gutting environmental regulations… rolling back our right to v**e… and putting Supreme Court decisions about marriage e******y and healthcare up for grabs.

That’s what’s in store if just 6 more states sign on to an Article V convention. That’s all the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, and their extremist allies need to reach the two-thirds supermajority required to convene the convention and start tearing apart our U.S. Constitution.

That’s why I’m urging you to immediately help Common Cause in our state-by-state battle to block and rescind calls for an Article V convention. Can you step up today and write to your legislator?


Believe me. This isn’t some plot out of a dystopian novel. This sinister effort is actually underway as I write -- perhaps even in your state’s legislature.

Even more frightening: once it’s called, there are no rules or guidelines in our Constitution or anywhere else that can constrain an Article V convention. Name a constitutional right you care about: press freedom, reproductive justice, privacy protections, a fair trial. Any one of those could be placed on the chopping block.

The odds may seem stacked against us, but I want you to know that concentrated and organized grassroots action can STOP this right-wing attack on our Constitution.

In fact, we’ve already proven we can fight the extremists and win. Common Cause activists have successfully rolled back calls for an Article V convention in Delaware, New Mexico, Maryland, and Nevada.

We’ve proven over and over that our state-by-state grassroots organizing works -- and that as long as we keep fighting, we’ll keep winning.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees many of our most important human rights. There are without a doubt parts we would like to strengthen or change. But we can do that through the same process we used for women’s suffrage and lowering the v****g age -- specific amendments carefully crafted for a specific problem, passed by Congress and ratified by states.
But with an Article V convention, there are no safeguards to protect us -- nothing to protect our fundamental rights like free speech, free religion, and v****g from going on the chopping block. AND… there’d be nothing stopping politicians from appointing themselves or their wealthy donors as delegates, or even auctioning seats off to the highest bidder!

Let’s be honest. The proposed constitutional convention is nothing more than another bald-faced attempt by the Koch Brothers and other special interests to rig the rules and seize even more power.

With just 6 states between us and an Article V convention, the time to redouble our efforts is right now. I hope we can count on your immediate support.

Common Cause has the expertise, the nonpartisan standing, and the grassroots power to successfully fight back. We’re building coalitions with Democratic and Republican lawmakers in red, blue, and purple states alike to defend all of us against the far right’s Article V power grab.

We must not -- and will not -- let these extremists rewrite our Constitution. Please let me know we can count on you to stand with me in this fight.

Thanks for all you do,

Karen Hobert Flynn, President
and the team at Common Cause

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 14:52:37   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
A lot of angst and panty twisting among the f*****t progressives over a move grant “sovereignty” to thinly settled areas such as those in the western part of Nebraska......same treatment Indian reservations get.

They are howling so much it’s making me kinda like it!

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 15:33:55   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
John_F wrote:
Just 6 states.

That’s all that stands between you and me and a disastrous Article V constitutional convention. An event unprecedented in U.S. history -- that would put every constitutional right we cherish under attack.

We have no choice but to immediately step up our grassroots response to defeat this effort.

Many constitutional experts believe this is the biggest present threat to our democracy -- and it’s happening right now, behind closed doors and out of the public eye.

The Koch Brothers & the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) are spending big money to lobby state lawmakers, demanding they support an Article V convention to radically reshape our nation. If we let them succeed, there’ll be little to stop them from writing their far right-wing agenda directly into our Constitution.

That could mean changing our First Amendment rights, like the right to free speech and assembly… gutting environmental regulations… rolling back our right to v**e… and putting Supreme Court decisions about marriage e******y and healthcare up for grabs.

That’s what’s in store if just 6 more states sign on to an Article V convention. That’s all the Koch Brothers, the Mercers, and their extremist allies need to reach the two-thirds supermajority required to convene the convention and start tearing apart our U.S. Constitution.

That’s why I’m urging you to immediately help Common Cause in our state-by-state battle to block and rescind calls for an Article V convention. Can you step up today and write to your legislator?


Believe me. This isn’t some plot out of a dystopian novel. This sinister effort is actually underway as I write -- perhaps even in your state’s legislature.

Even more frightening: once it’s called, there are no rules or guidelines in our Constitution or anywhere else that can constrain an Article V convention. Name a constitutional right you care about: press freedom, reproductive justice, privacy protections, a fair trial. Any one of those could be placed on the chopping block.

The odds may seem stacked against us, but I want you to know that concentrated and organized grassroots action can STOP this right-wing attack on our Constitution.

In fact, we’ve already proven we can fight the extremists and win. Common Cause activists have successfully rolled back calls for an Article V convention in Delaware, New Mexico, Maryland, and Nevada.

We’ve proven over and over that our state-by-state grassroots organizing works -- and that as long as we keep fighting, we’ll keep winning.

The U.S. Constitution guarantees many of our most important human rights. There are without a doubt parts we would like to strengthen or change. But we can do that through the same process we used for women’s suffrage and lowering the v****g age -- specific amendments carefully crafted for a specific problem, passed by Congress and ratified by states.
But with an Article V convention, there are no safeguards to protect us -- nothing to protect our fundamental rights like free speech, free religion, and v****g from going on the chopping block. AND… there’d be nothing stopping politicians from appointing themselves or their wealthy donors as delegates, or even auctioning seats off to the highest bidder!

Let’s be honest. The proposed constitutional convention is nothing more than another bald-faced attempt by the Koch Brothers and other special interests to rig the rules and seize even more power.

With just 6 states between us and an Article V convention, the time to redouble our efforts is right now. I hope we can count on your immediate support.

Common Cause has the expertise, the nonpartisan standing, and the grassroots power to successfully fight back. We’re building coalitions with Democratic and Republican lawmakers in red, blue, and purple states alike to defend all of us against the far right’s Article V power grab.

We must not -- and will not -- let these extremists rewrite our Constitution. Please let me know we can count on you to stand with me in this fight.

Thanks for all you do,

Karen Hobert Flynn, President
and the team at Common Cause
Just 6 states. br br That’s all that stands betwe... (show quote)


1-Article V is part of the COTUS, why are you against the rights of the people?

2-The left has used judicial activism to change the COTUS against the will of the people, and that is why the push for V.

3-Why do people thwart the will of the people in the name of the people?

Reply
 
 
Feb 2, 2019 15:59:57   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
OK, here's the deal.

To CALL a constitutional convention, 2/3rd of the state legislatures (34) must v**e for it. Apparently, 28 already have. Most v**ed to call one for a specific reason (congressional term limits, or a balanced budget amendment, et al), but the convention is allowed to do what it wants: propose an amendment or write a whole new constitution.

But, and here's the important part, wh**ever they do is just a PROPOSAL, which needs to be approved by 3/4th the state legislatures (38) to take effect, just like any other amendment.

So, the odds that a legislator, who asked for a convention for a specific amendment, would then v**e to throw out the whole constitution, is negligible.

In fact, even the convention does something reasonable, like say, a term limit amendment, it's unlikely that they'd even get the 34 states who called the convention in the first place (since they wanted something else).

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 16:03:25   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
LWW wrote:
3-Why do people thwart the will of the people in the name of the people?




Exactly. Let's get rid of the E*******l college, and directly elect the president.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 16:45:02   #
EyeSawYou
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Exactly. Let's get rid of the E*******l college, and directly elect the president.


If Republicans always won the popular v**e, you would not be saying this.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 17:06:15   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Exactly. Let's get rid of the E*******l college, and directly elect the president.


So you are not afraid of a tryanny of the majority.? The framer were, thats why a republic. Getting rid of the e*****raal college would mean thaat 7 states would chhose the president. The other people in the remaining 43 would be irrelivent. (sp?)

Reply
 
 
Feb 2, 2019 17:59:28   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
boberic wrote:
So you are not afraid of a tryanny of the majority.? The framer were, thats why a republic. Getting rid of the e*****raal college would mean thaat 7 states would chhose the president. The other people in the remaining 43 would be irrelivent. (sp?)



No, getting rid of the E*******l college will mean seven states will STOP choosing the president.


The founders never wanted the e*****rs to be "winner take all", and without that part of the e*******l system, your argument falls apart.


The founders were more concerned that in a country without mass communications, the average person would have no way of knowing who the possible candidates were. But that would know a local person who could be trusted to learn the candidates and choose the best. Hence the e*****rs.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 19:28:27   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
Exactly. Let's get rid of the E*******l college, and directly elect the president.


I’ve already explained it to you, I can’t understand it for you.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 19:36:01   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
JamesCurran wrote:
No, getting rid of the E*******l college will mean seven states will STOP choosing the president.


The founders never wanted the e*****rs to be "winner take all", and without that part of the e*******l system, your argument falls apart.


The founders were more concerned that in a country without mass communications, the average person would have no way of knowing who the possible candidates were. But that would know a local person who could be trusted to learn the candidates and choose the best. Hence the e*****rs.
No, getting rid of the E*******l college will mean... (show quote)


Pure unadulterated US GRADE A jibba jabba that has absolutely ZERO historical basis.

I’m going to suggest you actually read the COTUS before you embarrass yourself further.

The COTUS allowed each state to decide how e*****rs were chosen.

Should a state decide to throw a dart at a list of citizens once for each allotted e*****r.

Pay very close attention ... YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO V**E FOR THE POTUS.

Deal with it.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 22:07:56   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
I somewhat doubt that would always work to everyones satisfaction. I redid the 2016 E*******l College count by taking the Senate seats out of the equation. As House seats reflect State populations that mght show popular v**e. Trump still got the most EC v**es, but by a much smaller margin. Hillary got some 3 million more v**es, but they were in States where the E*******l v**es were not in doubt. To make a national e******n for President would require a COTUS amendment and since the COTUS bestowes considerable powers to the States ratification might well be impossible.


JamesCurran wrote:
Exactly. Let's get rid of the E*******l college, and directly elect the president.

Reply
 
 
Feb 2, 2019 22:24:16   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
I posted this article so to stimulate debate and some of the replies suggest my ploy worked. Now for my opinion. The Constitution defines how many delegates and how selected for a Convention - so the States will be prominate plays on the front end. The States will select delegates who will work to secure State interests. Just exactly which Articles and Sections and subparts are h**ed by 3/4ths of the States. With which Articles, Sections and subparts are loved by 3/4ths of the States. In other words, I greatly doubt the State selected delegates would trash the Constitution. Some here have noted that some States signed on for a Convention for some narrow purposes, so might the Convention call be more a message to Congress from its State homes. The States originated their calls in their legislatures - those same legislatures can also overturn and reverse their calls.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 22:31:59   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
LWW wrote:
1-Article V is part of the COTUS, why are you against the rights of the people?

2-The left has used judicial activism to change the COTUS against the will of the people, and that is why the push for V.

3-Why do people thwart the will of the people in the name of the people?


I don't understand why you accuse me of being against the rights of the people. The article just noted what could be done, not what should be done.

Can you put more meat on the bones in #2 ?

As for #3, I think history has shown that people have always tried to boss or rule other people, which is why we have Constitutions and governments.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 22:48:45   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
LWW wrote:
Pure unadulterated US GRADE A jibba jabba that has absolutely ZERO historical basis.


Baloney. If I wanted to waste the time to dig it up, I could show you the quote from a FF about how, when states started using winner-take-all v****g, the e*******l college had outlived it's purpose, and should be abolished.

Quote:
I’m going to suggest you actually read the COTUS before you embarrass yourself further.


I'm quite certain I'm read it (and understand it) more than you.

Quote:

The COTUS allowed each state to decide how e*****rs were chosen.

Should a state decide to throw a dart at a list of citizens once for each allotted e*****r.

Yes, so? Nothing I said contradicts that.

Quote:
Pay very close attention ... YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO V**E FOR THE POTUS.



Yes, which is why I recommended CHANGING it. The whole point of this thread is a discussion on CHANGING the Constitution.

Reply
Feb 2, 2019 22:59:39   #
JamesCurran Loc: Trenton ,NJ
 
LWW wrote:
Pure unadulterated US GRADE A jibba jabba that has absolutely ZERO historical basis.



And as for the historical basis of what I said, Hamilton, in Federalist #68 ("The Mode of Electing the President"), wrote:
Quote:
A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated tasks.



He was strongly opposed to pre-se******n by the e*****rs, and winner-take-all. When states started to do that, he proposed a constitutional amendment to stop it. You can read it here: https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-25-02-0289

Reply
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