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The attractiveness of mirrorless cameras
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Jan 31, 2019 08:52:31   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
cboysen wrote:
I probably missed the initial discussions as to why the interest in mirrorless cameras, but I've been wondering: are they in some ways better than DSLRs? If so, how? Are they lighter? Cheaper? Do they use better lenses? I'd appreciate answers. Thanks.


"Better" often involves opinion. My opinion leads me to prefer DSLRs.

https://www.lightstalking.com/considerations-mirrorless-cameras/
http://www.lightstalking.com/mirrorless-vs-dslr/
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/dslr-vs-mirrorless-cameras,news-17736.html
https://www.lightstalking.com/six-points-consider-transition-mirrorless-system/
http://www.diyphotography.net/love-breaks-sold-mirrorless-camera/
http://digital-photography-school.com/how-the-switch-from-dslr-to-mirrorless-changed-how-i-edit-photos/

Also -
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-576356-1.html

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Jan 31, 2019 08:52:51   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Stan Fayer wrote:
I made the mistake of buying a Nikon D100, when it first came out because of all my lenses. What junk. I have the feeling that the manufacturers have run out of ideas to sell and now want to start all over again. Eventually that will be all that’s available Leica has been mirrorless since the beginning, so was Nikon and Cannon. It’s a sales game.
Stan


Canon had a very successful run for 30+ years with the 21st century EF mount.
All others have now tried to copy it in some form
Now the RF mount allows all the EF and EF-S to work better and seamlessly with the RF mount.

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Jan 31, 2019 08:53:31   #
rond-photography Loc: Connecticut
 
cboysen wrote:
I probably missed the initial discussions as to why the interest in mirrorless cameras, but I've been wondering: are they in some ways better than DSLRs? If so, how? Are they lighter? Cheaper? Do they use better lenses? I'd appreciate answers. Thanks.


I think the bottom line is - they are different. Cheaper? Sometimes. Better? In some ways, but not in others. Better Lenses? No, except in the case of Olympus where they upped their game considerably by introducing a much better line of lenses (IMHO) when they switched to mirrorless.
Lighter? I think it depends on what lens you attach. A 70-200MM lens with an max aperture of F2.8 is big and heavy no matter what format or type of camera it attaches to. Some weight savings are achieved because you don't have the mirror box, and the overall length of the lens is slightly shorter (don't ask me how this happens - just observing the difference between my mirrored and mirrorless lenses of same specs for Olympus).

My number one favorite feature of mirrorless is that you don't have to go out of your way to chimp for most shots. After you shoot, the image is displayed in the viewfinder for a variable amount of time (you choose) and if you blew a shot (exposure for example) you see it without even thinking about it. You can turn that display off if you don't want the lag between shots. I have mine at .5 seconds. That is enough time to make you aware you need to shoot again.

Check out Dpreview.com for more technical info on each camera available. I spent many hours there when trying to decide what to buy when I upgraded in 2014.

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Jan 31, 2019 08:58:14   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Update, the Canon R system mirrorless does NOT leave the sensor exposed during a lens change.
There is a protective shutter over the sensor during the change.

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Jan 31, 2019 09:11:58   #
Griff Loc: Warwick U.K.
 
If mirrorless had been invented first, would you pay extra to have a mirror and its box added?

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Jan 31, 2019 09:25:06   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Canon had a very successful run for 30+ years with the 21st century EF mount.
All others have now tried to copy it in some form
Now the RF mount allows all the EF and EF-S to work better and seamlessly with the RF mount.


Do explain how all others have tried to copy it as I’m not familiar with what makes it so special.

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Jan 31, 2019 09:31:35   #
hammond
 
The batteries seem to drain much faster on mirrorless than DSLR since the EVF is powered on even when you're framing/setting up shots.

The EVF gives you a more accurate view of the image you're about to capture, though many DSLRs have an LCD on the back that allows you to take shots with the same effect (essentially, the LCD can act as an EVF).

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Jan 31, 2019 09:43:14   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Electronics replaces mechanics to make a photo in a mirrorless, otherwise the physics is pretty much the same. There are technical marvels in mirrorless like focus peaking that aren't available in DSLR's (I think). Otherwise they’re just cameras. No magic there.

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Jan 31, 2019 09:50:09   #
Shutterbug57
 
Griff wrote:
If mirrorless had been invented first, would you pay extra to have a mirror and its box added?


Apparently yes. Mirrorless camera’s with interchangeable lenses wear out way before SLRs.

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Jan 31, 2019 09:57:26   #
Zooman 1
 
I first bought the Canon M5, didn't care too much for it, too small, and I didn't take the time to really learn how to use it. Gave it to my grand daughter. Then got the Canon R with adaptor, learning to use it before heading out for any serious shooting such as an up coming trip to California. Like the fact that my EOS lenses work fine with the R + adaptor, a bit lighter, but not enough to be the reason to go mirrorless, do like no mirror flap. Will keep using my Canon DSLR as well. Did get the 28-105mm R lens getting go results with it. First time to have a full frame digital camera. Wish Canon would come out with more R lenses. Just my comments on the DSLR versus Mirrorless.

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Jan 31, 2019 10:33:14   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
10MPlayer wrote:
The body is smaller and weighs less. Because of physics, the lenses are bigger and weigh more. I am not sold yet. If someone can show me how the entire package of body and lens is smaller and lighter I'd like to see it.


Just compare Fuji XF cameras with their lenses to comparable Canon and Nikon DSLR cameras and lenses.

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Jan 31, 2019 10:38:59   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Shutterbug57 wrote:
Apparently yes. Mirrorless camera’s with interchangeable lenses wear out way before SLRs.


Can you point us to some statistics that back that up?

I know one professional who beats the hell out of his Lumix mirrorless cameras, and they keep on taking it.

https://naturalexposures.com/panasonics-lumix-g9/

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Jan 31, 2019 10:39:59   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
"If someone can show me how the entire package of body and lens is smaller and lighter I'd like to see it." Have you tried an Olympus Pen with a kit lens?

The latest offer from Olympus , especially with the grip looks intimidating. I have not seen one but it seems to me that camera is as big as a dSLR. Some of the lenses are big and heavy and more lenses are on the way but nobody knows how heavy or big they are.
My Olympus Pen EP-5 with the 18mm f2.8 fits in a pocket and it is light enough to shoot the whole day without issues. The majority of these mirrorless bodies fit anywhere and they are excellent for traveling because of their small size. They are competent enough and capable of producing excellent prints. Their technologies are superior to those built into dSLR cameras. The new cameras are very good to shoot action and wildlife since their AF have been greatly improved. I have no experience with the new AF of those cameras I am only making reference to what I have read and know.

The new Olympus and the Nikon Z series are as expensive as dSLR cameras. The professional lenses are expensive also. Sensor size varies and while Olympus and Panasonic have kept the M43 system other cameras have gone "full frame" with sensors similar to those in dSLR bodies.
Many professionals have embraced these cameras. Sony for instance is a favorite and let me mention that Zeiss manufactures lenses for the Sony cameras like Leica does for Panasonic. Olympus and Panasonic have a joint venture by which lenses from one company fit the bodies of the other. I use several Panasonic lenses with my Olympus bodies.

These cameras have models that are light and those that are heavy. If you try one of the small Panasonic or Olympus bodies you could get hooked.

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Jan 31, 2019 10:52:48   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
10MPlayer wrote:
The body is smaller and weighs less. Because of physics, the lenses are bigger and weigh more. I am not sold yet. If someone can show me how the entire package of body and lens is smaller and lighter I'd like to see it.


Body weight doesn't count if your lenses are heavy. SYSTEM size and weight counts if you're traveling or walking, or if you fatigue easily. Sony's top G lenses are among the heaviest of their kind.

Native designs of lenses for APS-C can be 1/3 to 1/2 the weight of full frame field of view equivalents.

Native Micro 4/3 lenses can be 1/4 to 1/3 the weight of full frame field of view equivalents.

You lose a stop of performance in low light with APS-C gear, and you lose two stops of performance in low light with Micro 4/3 gear, all other things being equal. Life is full of little trade-offs... Pick your poison.

Here's the full chart of available native Micro 4/3 lenses:

http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

My system is about 2/3 lighter than a Canon 5DIII and 24-70 f/2.8, 60mm f/2.8 Macro, and 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. Yet it covers the same fields of view. A similar Nikon system is even heavier.

Lumix GH4 body
Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8
Lumix 30mm f/2.8 macro
Lumix 35-70mm f/2.8

Here's a comparison I did back in 2012 or 2013.

Panasonic holy trinity of favorite pro zoom lenses weighs 2.13 lb. or 965g

7-14mm f/4 10.58 oz. or 300g

12-35mm f/2.8 10.76 oz. or 305g

35-100mm f/2.8 12.7 oz. or 360g

That's not quite 33% of the Canon holy trinity and just 28.3% of the Nikon Holy Trinity of pro zoom lenses.

Panasonic Lumix GH3: Weight (inc. batteries): 550 g (1.21 lb / 19.40 oz)
Dimensions: 133 x 93 x 82 mm (5.24 x 3.66 x 3.23″)


Canon holy trinity of lenses weighs 6.45 lb. or 2.928 kg

16-35mm f/2.8 1.4 lb. or 635g

24-70mm f/2.8 1.77 lb. or 803g

70-200mm f/2.8 3.28 lb. or 1.490 kg

70D: Weight (inc. batteries): 755 g (1.66 lb / 26.63 oz)
Dimensions: 139 x 104 x 79 mm (5.47 x 4.11 x 3.09″)

Canon 6D: Weight (inc. batteries): 770 g (1.70 lb / 27.16 oz)
Dimensions: 145 x 111 x 71 mm (5.71 x 4.37 x 2.8″)

5D Mark III: Weight (inc. batteries): 950 g (2.09 lb / 33.51 oz)
Dimensions: 152 x 116 x 76 mm (5.98 x 4.57 x 2.99″)


Nikon holy trinity weighs 7.5 lb. or 3.409 kg

14-24mm f/2.8 2.13 lb. or 969g

24-70mm f/2.8 1.98 lb. or 900g

70-200mm f/2.8 3.39 lb. or 1.540 kg

D7100: Weight (inc. batteries): 765 g (1.69 lb / 26.98 oz)
Dimensions: 136 x 107 x 76 mm (5.35 x 4.21 x 2.99″)

D600: Weight (inc. batteries): 850 g (1.87 lb / 29.98 oz)
Dimensions: 141 x 113 x 82 mm (5.55 x 4.45 x 3.23″)

D750: Weight (inc. batteries): 755 g (1.7 lb / 26.63 oz)
Dimensions: 140.5 x 113 x 78mm (5.6 x 4.5 x 3.1 in)

The trend continues today. Olympus systems are in a similar size/weight class as Panasonic, by the time you gather a body and similar glass.

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Jan 31, 2019 11:04:46   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Shutterbug57 wrote:
Apparently yes. Mirrorless camera’s with interchangeable lenses wear out way before SLRs.


I missed this myth, nice catch ...

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