artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Nothing is 100% for sure of course, butI appreciate having other eyes look and point out good and bad specifics, so I do the same. A few get prickly, so I don't bother them, or look at them for that matter.

For those who are here not just for socialization, but hoping to make their work better in direction or technique, your comments are appreciated.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

The Great Truth Tellers will always be with us, under one name or another 🙄

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I believe that critiquing is one of the the most powerful and effective teaching and learning tools in photographic education and self improvement. It is the best way for photograhers at every level to continuously upgrade and improve the quality of their work. The caveat, however, is that offering and receiving constrictive criticism requires certain skill sets and mindsets for the process to be successful and effective- it's a matter of good communication skills and an art form in itself.

The first requirement is that the photographer, the maker of the image, truly wants to have their work critiqued. If they consider constructive criticism as unwanted unsolicited advice, the entire process becomes useless and futile. The maker is placing a certain degree of trust in that the critic or teacher is going to offer an honest, ethical, detailed and unbiased opinion based on technique, artistry, craftsmanship and presentation. It then behooves the critic to do so.

The critic should analyze the image on the basis of understandable and certain criteria such as viewer impact, composition, technical excellence in the use of light or lighting, color or tonal harmony, craftsmanship, presentation and any number of applicable aspects and offer an opinion as to attributes, any perceived shortcomings and the accompanying suggestions for improvements and remedial methods. A positive critique of an obviously poor image is is just as much of a disservice to the maker as an unnecessarily harsh critique in that it is misleading and will be of no benefit. Be honest, get to the point but be through.

It shoud apply without saying that harsh or derogatory remarks are totally unnecessary and unacceptable. A critique does not necessarily need to be intrinsically negative- it's not a "witch hunt" looking for trouble. Good aspects of the image shoud be pointed out and negative aspects should be treated as distractions from the good stuff. It's important to ENCOURAGE photograhers to improve and do better work. Discouragement is not constructive. Teach, don't bash! Don't critique based on style or content- stick to technique and artistry. For example- don't say, I dislike or dislaike landscapes or pictures of little kids, cats, high or low key, abstracts etc. Assess the image on its technical and artistic merits and treatment. If you don't understand or are totally unfamiliar with the style or approach, it is best NOT to offer a critique.

The recipient of the critique has a job to do as well. Hopefully, folks that are offering the critique know what the are looking at and what they are writing or talking about. Unfortunately, not everyone does in every situation or venue. In professional, association or even camera club competitions, usually there is a selected judging panel, of a known level of expertise, to score entries and offer critiques. In an academic environment, the teacher, instructors or seminar givers, hopefully, are qualified. In an open forum there is the good, the bad and the ugly! In every cases, even in the best of circumstances, you have to asses the value of the critique from who it comes. Even given by a known expert- it is only an opinion. If you feel the opinion or assessment is unfair or inaccurate- get more than one opinion- get a consensus. If you are confident that the opinion is valid, all you can do is absorb the information and apply the knowledge to you skill sets.

All this business about "thick skin" and "ignore lists" , frankly, to me is nonsensical. This is not mortal combat, a place for verbal abuse or childishness. Some folks are too sensitive and othere start off by saying "here's my shot- now go rip it apart...let me have it! Extremes are not good- just do you best work and get ready for a learning experience! It's FUN and healthy! Be realistic- not everyone has to offer up their work for criticism. If you find this unpleasant- don't do it! If you do it, you shoud be prepared for some disappointment but that is only constructive if you take it all in as a learning experience and put it all to good use.

In my own experience, I start off my professional career as an "apprentice" in a busy New York City studio. In the beginning I began to believe that "apprentice" was a euphemism for "under paid slave and junior punching bag" . There were 12 senior photographers who criticized everything I did- even the passport pictures.I soon realized that the were taking out time to start me off in the right direction and my work began to improve and gain more acceptance. Before very long, I was able to satisfy the customers! The theory I learned in school became more meaningful in practice. My boss MADE me enter my work into professional competitions (believe me- way above my pay rate at the time) just to get the critiques at the judging sessions. Perhaps I became a "critique junkie" but it worked out well for me. It certainly keeps one on one's toes!

If you make photographs strictly for you own personal edification- that's perfectly alright. Many of us, however, want to share our work with others- we want them to enjoy and admire what we do. On the professional side we are hired and paid to make images for other folks so our pictures are always subjected to scrutinization and criticism- it comes with the territory. We get used to it and we try hard for good reviews.

To the OP- My recommendation is simple. If you want a critique, ask for it. If you wish to offer a critique, seek out folks and sections that invite that activity. Don't be afraid to ask and don't be afraid to try you hand at critiquing. If you haven't done it in the past, use my suggestions as a guide lines. After a while you will get the hang of it and create your own style.

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

Great analysis.

Andy

Rickoshay Loc: Southern California

I am fairly new to being serious about improving my images. I have not posted any photos yet but when I do I will state that constructive suggestions would be welcomed. Personally I would not offer my opinion unless it is asked for. As stated a bit earlier some folks are happy where they are with their images and others wish to improve. It is hard to tell the difference.

tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

I rarely critique anyone's efforts. That being said, if I do see something I just HAVE to comment on, I do it in a PM directly to the OP. But I must agree with the posters who decry that a number of the focus-challenged, tilted-horizon efforts posted here are commented on as "great" or "nice set" etc. All this does is to reward and reinforce efforts that could use constructive comments and I think that is actually a disservice to the poster. IMHO

tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

Well stated, articulate, sensitive and helpful - how did you get onto this forum? OK, don't flame me, I was just kidding! Thanks for a great guideline for a very touchy and subjective issue!

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

How DID I get here!?

Much truth is said in jest. My lovely wife of 50 years and my colleagues at work ask me the same question!

I was participating in another forum, early on, more professionally oriented, when the founder and main moderator passed away and thereafter the form soon dissolved. Bad habits dieing hard, I found another one with too much internal politics. I even got to be a moderator but it was too much. Meanwhile a few of us actually started our own forum but the main instigator disappeared and I lost interest. Someone recommend this place.

Years ago, after leaving the service, I was offered a job as a photography teacher in a New York City vocational high school. I went in for a week to sit in on classes and see if I was compatible with the program. The place was like "Sodium and Gomorrah mixed with West Side Story". I told the coordinator that I would have to decline the position because within a week I would probably have murdered some of the students. If I wanted to be a prison guard, I would apply to the Department of Corrections or get a job as an orderly at the asylum! My family took me to task- "A schoolteacher is a good 9 to 5 job with benefits instead of being a "picture bum" working days, nights and weekends and those poor kids deserve a good education" they pontificated! So, not only did I walk away from a job befitting a "nice Jewish boy" but I also shirked my civic and moral duty and now God is punishing me- that would by my grandmothers take on the situation.

Maybe she was right- so here I am trying to "teach" and learn and folks are arguing, yelling at one and other and ignoring me. Well- at least, sitting here in my studio, I can't attempt to kill anyone and I have surely mellowed with age. Besides, after 50 years of dealing with cranky art directors, bossy executives, photographing nervous brides, screaming babies, drunken guests at weddings not to mention 2 years in a war- this is a "piece of cake"!

Fact is, most of the folks here are nice, constructive, talented, creative and well meaning good people. Even the trolls are cute! They are "characters"! Gotta have a sense of humor!

Bipod

Before reviewing any play, be sure to contact the director, producer, playwright,
all the investors, and all the actor to make sure they want their play reviewed.
And find out what sort of input they are open to.

Then try very hard to not to hurt their feelings.

In this way, you can write an objective, frank, honest review.

(Or you can just call it like you see it, and write good crticism.)

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

Perhaps interpersonal skills have a little to do with how it’s taken. I once had an HR Director of whom it was said, “She could give you a merit raise and make you feel like crap.” I’ve also known people who could fire you in a way that made you feel like a million bucks.

Guess which one is more likely to lead to long term improvement.

Andy

Bipod

Yes, Andy: an HR hatchetman's job is to fire idiots and make them think he is doing them a favor.
Unfortunately, that only works with idiots.

And we are photographers and critics, not HR hatchetmen...or Dance Moms.

The more you try to sugarcoat the messsage "it's a bad photo", the more contempt you are showing
for the photographer--treating him like a backward child.

The nicest thing you can do for the creator of a work is to tell them the truth about that work.
It is not the person that is being criticised, it's the work. Anyone who can't see that really shouldn't
be displaying his work in public.

And there is no more public place to display photos than on the Internet.
Welcome to the real world.

Bipod

BTW, why is it that personal attacks and insults are OK here with you all, but honest evaluation of a photo isn't?

Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY

Rather a sweeping generalization don't you think. I for one am not OK with personal attacks and insults.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

You are welcoming people to the real world? You haven't posted ANY of your pictures. You are a troll.



I guess that must be YOU.



What an arrogant statement, but I wouldn’t expect anything less from you. First of all, most people are not creative, wouldn’t know what good is, not to mention that art is SUBJECTIVE. You are only expressing your Opinion, they are not facts.

DO YOU APPRECIATE WHEN I TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU? If you did, you wouldn’t complain, would you?

All you do is troll. You talk too much, but all it is is noise.

You want to criticize other people’s work, yet you don’t post any photos of your own. That is a troll. Like you said, it’s the nicest thing we can do. Tell you the truth.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

My goodness!

You can tell the truth, be honest, make meaningful critiques and help folks improve their work without being harsh, making snide and sarcastic remarks, staging personal attacks and engaging in character assassination.

You can state and defend you opinions about any subject on the forum without any of the above disgraceful behavior I have alluded to.

Thus far, this had been a civil conversation with various points of view until now. Why does this always need to happen. When are you two- y'all know who you are- gonna cool it? It's disgusting! All I see are cynical, negative, condescending sttitudes and doom and gloom followed by nasty and angry retorts. GROW UP!

Yes! We are photograhers, not entertainment critics. Constructive criticism shoud be intended to help each other, exchange ideas and opinions and stimulate clean debates and good conversations among colleagues, friends and folks with common interests. Theatrical critics can issue a negative review and close down a production. We are not here to close down people's enthusiasm and create discouragement! A litt kindness goes a long way!

Take it outside guys! I always thought "The ATTIC" is ridiculous bit now I see it has some legitimate function.