AzPicLady Loc: Behind the camera!

Recently I shot a series of images of the same thing (a cotton field). For some reason the first couple were overexposed. But when the exposure slider started to the left, the image came into nearly perfect exposure and contrast. I was surprised and pleased. I don't think I would do that intentionally, though.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

My pleasure, Richard.
Main point is, EBTR is far simpler than a few nay-sayers like to claim it is!

Dave

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Not a bit of it, Coz...Just remembering my initial reactions when I got started with EBTR .... Egad!... 14 years ago!

Your Coz in the Colonies

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

Some of the newer camera bodies (Nikon and Canon that I know of, and perhaps others) have the ability to automatically or manually set for ETTR. I've tried it, and it works. It specifically works when shooting raw, and it also seems to work just as well in JPEG.

The new metering mode is called "Highlight Weighted Metering" (at least by Nikon) and it works by looking at the entire frame and setting exposure so that no pixels are blown out. (It's really not that new...the D810 has it.) It is necessary to use exposure compensation to determine exactly what the final product ends up being, and there appears to be some difference from one model to another in just how it works with default settings.

I've been working to thoroughly understand how this new metering mode works for the past 5 or 6 months, and have been learning about ETTR for most of the past month. My ETTR study has been most interesting, because it seems to me that the proponents are mostly correct in their conclusions, but that their reasoning and basis both contain significant errors. I'm thinking of starting a discussion of the approach and of camera capabilities in the Main Discussion once I get more certain about how things really work.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

An important point to remember is that although, one can get both a jpeg and raw capture by exposing ETTR, if the camera has the usual one full stop or more (up to two and 2/3 to 3 extra stops) of dynamic range beyond the point at which a jpeg will show clipped highlights, that raw capture at the same exposure is forfeiting half or much more of the tonal spectrum it could deliver at the offered file bit-depth if the full, raw-accessible DR had been used for highest possible quality raw image data capture.“JPEG + RAW” is NOT a great deal, given the diminished raw image data quality that is captured when a stop or more of DR “IS LEFT SITTING ON THE TABLE, unused, disregarded, and wasted.

Dave

Dave

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

In fact, that is exactly what Michael Reichmann was begging for when he first developed his ETTR approach. Too bad he is no longer around to reap the benefits.

What is usually left out of any discussion of ETTR is the role that the scene's dynamic range (DR) plays in the application of ETTR.

If you look at the image in the initial post it is clear that this scene has a relatively low DR - no deep shadows and no bright highlights - a relatively low overall contrast. As such, one or two stops of additional exposure is unlikely to result in blown highlights. One or two stops of reduced exposure is not likely to push any of the tones down to a level where noise might become visible. Using ETTR or EBTR for this scene is a low risk endeavor.

But there is also very little to be gained over simply exposing the scene naturally. A scene with a narrow DR seldom benefits from ETTR unless it is very dark overall.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I have never seen a camera that has more than about one stop of DR beyond the point where the blinkies begin. This is true for the Nikons and Sony cameras I have tested.

In order to have 3 extra stops the blinkies would need to start at middle gray.

Delderby Loc: Derby UK

The attached shows that you are not quite right.

Attached file:
(Download)

nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL

Gorgeous image Paul!

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Thank you Robert, Bob, RG, Keni, Richard, nimbushopper! I had a good deal of luck with snow in the four corners area in travels in Dec 2016 where the days / nights of heavy snow, I was not traveling between locations. On the days I did have a drive, it was clear with plenty of snow to be found when I got to where I was going. Glad you enjoyed the results.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I still don't understand the exposure (EV=4).

The EXIF shows the exposure bias at 5/3 stops which makes the camera's recommended exposure EV 5.67. That's nine stops more exposure (or the scene was nine stops darker) than broad daylight.

Something doesn't add up.

If the exposure was 6 seconds, you would remember having needed to use a tripod. The shutter speed must have been recorded incorrectly- 1/80 sec makes more sense.

Wags Loc: Mequon, WI

Dave, in your photo example, are you saying that the only adjustment you made is adjusting the exposure?

treadwl Loc: South Florida

First, I really enjoy the crisp, sharp feel of the photo. The entire image looks "alive".
I also enjoyed reading the links you provided. Without knowing it, what you present is what I've been doing for a long time. Now I better understand why I've been doing these things and I see how I could push the envelop a bit further than I currently do. This was quite helpful.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Keni, thanks to Dave's, uuglypher, and mine numerous conversations and his guiding input, I'd say that the vast majority of my photographs are done using ETTR/EBTR techniques. I'm eternally grateful for Dave's inspiration and guidance. I tend to use those techniques much the same as The Zone System is applied to film. I've adjusted, through rigorous testing, exposure settings to place values in the Zone I wish them to be. Then through Zonal processing in ACR/PS, I control the values to achieve the artistic vision I saw when photographing the original scene. I do use an additional technique that pushes this just a bit further, but not applicable to this discussion.

None of this comes automatically, as it varies from individual camera to individual camera. Thus, the rigorous testing mentioned earlier. However, as Paul has shown in this post, it works remarkably well and produces great images.
--Bob

R.G. Loc: Scotland

Have you ever noticed if the onset of the blinkies coincides with the histogram moving beyond the right?