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ETTR in landscape photography
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Dec 4, 2018 12:48:06   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
6 sec at f/10, ISO-100 (Canon EOS 5DIII) Processed results using LR6 and Topaz DeNoise v6

Merrick Butte


Original - purposfully overexposed, but no highlight warnings


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Dec 4, 2018 12:50:14   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
Beautiful. I love the way that Southwesting red rock looks with snow.

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Dec 4, 2018 12:56:45   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Beautiful work, Paul. A bit of phraseology caution. You over exposed nothing. You added, pushed, or extended exposure. Had you over exposed anything, you would have patches of blank white.
--Bob
CHG_CANON wrote:
6 sec at f/10, ISO-100 (Canon EOS 5DIII) Processed results using LR6 and Topaz DeNoise v6

Original - purposfully overexposed, but no highlight warnings


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Dec 4, 2018 12:58:29   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Even at that size the noise isn't visible, even in the smooth areas like the sky. Just out of curiosity, did anything end up getting blown? The reason I'm asking is because that's always going to be the biggest risk when using ETTR or EBTR. Did you have a tactic for knowing if or when the highlights were going to get blown?

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Dec 4, 2018 13:07:11   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
R.G. wrote:
Even at that size the noise isn't visible, even in the smooth areas like the sky. Just out of curiosity, did anything end up getting blown? The reason I'm asking is because that's always going to be the biggest risk when using ETTR or EBTR. Did you have a tactic for knowing if or when the highlights were going to get blown?

I use the camera's histogram and highlight warnings. Also, decisions are based on experience with the specific camera model and the RAW files it creates, where blinking highlights don't mean unrecoverable highlights, depending on location and how far over the right boundary of the histogram. The "below" image of the screen capture shows the histogram from DDP on the unprocessed RAW file, pushed well to the right for a nearly dark / late in the blue hour capture, but nothing pushed over the right edge.

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Dec 4, 2018 13:14:10   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I use the camera's histogram and highlight warnings. Also, decisions are based on experience with the specific camera model and the RAW files it creates, where blinking highlights don't mean unrecoverable highlights, depending on location and how far over the right boundary of the histogram. The "below" image of the screen capture shows the histogram from DDP on the unprocessed RAW file, pushed well to the right for a nearly dark / late in the blue hour capture, but nothing pushed over the right edge.
I use the camera's histogram and highlight warning... (show quote)


Do you know if the highlights warning is jpeg-based? The camera's histogram is, and if you want to know how far beyond the right you can push the exposure you have to evaluate how much ERADR (extra raw available dynamic range) that particular camera has. Each camera has to be assessed individually because they're not all the same.

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Dec 4, 2018 13:20:07   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
Gorgeous but could someone explain what ETTR and EBTR is?

Thanks!

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Dec 4, 2018 13:24:35   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
kenievans wrote:
Gorgeous but could someone explain what ETTR and EBTR is?

Thanks!

Keni -

These three are as good a place to start as any.

https://luminous-landscape.com/expose-right/
^^^ see links to other sources

https://www.anthonymorganti.com/2015/08/21/understanding-ettl-and-ettr/
^^^ look at examples

http://schewephoto.com/ETTR/
^^^ note the noise example

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Dec 4, 2018 13:45:59   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
R.G. wrote:
Do you know if the highlights warning is jpeg-based? The camera's histogram is, and if you want to know how far beyond the right you can push the exposure you have to evaluate how much ERADR (extra raw available dynamic range) that particular camera has. Each camera has to be assessed individually because they're not all the same.


To answer my own question, the difference between ETTR and EBTR is that with ETTR you don't have to worry about blown highlights because you're staying within the jpeg-oriented limits exposure-wise, as indicated by the histogram (and presumably also by the highlights warnings). It could be argued that if you can safely increase the exposure using ETTR you don't need to take the extra risk of EBTR. Do you know how many stops your shot was over-exposed by?

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Dec 4, 2018 13:58:56   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Very spectacular.
My preference is for the original as it just "jumps" out at me.

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Dec 4, 2018 14:01:19   #
kenievans Loc: Dallas
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Keni -

These three are as good a place to start as any.

https://luminous-landscape.com/expose-right/
^^^ see links to other sources

https://www.anthonymorganti.com/2015/08/21/understanding-ettl-and-ettr/
^^^ look at examples

http://schewephoto.com/ETTR/
^^^ note the noise example


Thank you for the links! I remember reading about Exposure To The Right but not Exposure Beyond the Right. I decided not to pursue the subject at the time as I was still trying to wrap my brain around the exposure triangle. My poor brain can only absorb so much at a time. The first article really clicked for me regarding each F\Stop recording half as much light as the previous one with the brightest tones taking most of the data. Now it makes sense to me.

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Dec 4, 2018 15:08:19   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
6 sec at f/10, ISO-100 (Canon EOS 5DIII) Processed results using LR6 and Topaz DeNoise v6. ...

What time of day/night did you take that image?

EV=4 suggests that it was not taken in broad daylight. So does the absence of any shadows.

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Dec 4, 2018 15:42:01   #
Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)
 
Here’s the long-story-short on EBTR landscape exposure.

1. set you camera for raw capture.

2. find the exposure you would use to get the brightest jpeg image possible without clipping highlights ( That’s the ETTR exposure)

3. ADD to the ETTR exposure your camera’s pre-determined extra raw-accessible dynamic range (ERADR) to the ETTR exposure and ... (note that the camera I used for the example below has one and 1/3 stops of ERADR at base ISO.)

4. squeeze the shutter... and Bob’s your uncle!

Then you will notice that in your camera’s display the your image is washed out with blown highlights!
“Overexposed” you s ream...stamping your feet!

Well.. Aaaaactually......it’s not! Would be, were it a jpeg file, but lucky you, you shot a raw capture and got a perfectly exposed image file of the highest possible image data quality.

Wutcha do next is open it in your raw converter, normalize its tonality by sliding the “Exposure” slider to the left...and lo and behold...there is your tonally perfect image...and nary a clipped highlight to be found!

Dave


(Download)

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Dec 4, 2018 15:43:35   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Uuglypher wrote:
Here’s the long-story-short on EBTR landscape exposure.

1. set you camera for raw capture.

2. find the exposure you would use to get the brightest jpeg image possible without clipping highlights ( That’s the ETTR exposure)

3. ADD to the ETTR exposure your camera’s pre-determined extra raw-accessible dynamic range (ERADR) to the ETTR exposure and ...

4. squeeze the shutter... and Bob’s your uncle!

Then you will notice that in your camera’s display the your image is washed out with blown highlights!
“Overexposed” you s ream...stamping your feet!

Well.. Aaaaactually......it’s not! Would be, were it a jpeg file, but lucky you, you shot a raw capture and got a perfectly exposed image file of the highest possible image data quality.

Wutcha do next is open it in your raw converter, normalize its tonality by sliding the “Exposure” slider to the left...and lo and behold...there is your tonally perfect image!

Dave
Here’s the long-story-short on EBTR landscape exp... (show quote)


Thanks Dave.

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Dec 4, 2018 15:45:12   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Uuglypher wrote:
.....you scream...stamping your feet!........


Hey, you've been spying on me .

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