elliott937 Loc: St. Louis

I wish to support Jim and JRD3. When I joined UHH, it was out of curiosity, to learn the purpose and goal of this form. In short order, I saw it as a multi collection of sub-forms, ranging from Q&A where we can help each other, to Examples of Photography, to Buy/Sell/Trade, and even my favorite HDR. Over the years I have posted several questions, even non-photography (ex: do you all leave your computers on 24/7 or turn them off at the end of the day, as I always did?). While I've been a photographer since my teen years, and teaching is my regular career, I've enjoyed the help to each other, the positive support, and yes, the respect shown to each other. Permit me to add, during recent years, we've observed a significant slip of 'support', 'courtesy', and 'respect'. We need only turn on the daily news to observe examples. That doesn't mean it must exist in all areas. It does not have to exist at UHH. That is our choice. I believe we can function here as an example of ideal respect, not as a reflection of disrespect seen on the daily news.

I'm glad Jim and JRD3 started this conversation. UHH can be an example for other to follow.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Click on "all sections" at the bottom of the page to find Close-Up, For Your Consideration, and other volunteer-moderated sections that are more about photography and civility than testosterone-driven egos.

Similar to Old Timer's comment about having received thanks via pm, I too get one or two private thank-you's per month, as well as some public ones. This tells me there are a great many folks who would prefer a kinder, gentler main discussion forum.

When there's a rude criticism, there is usually at least one person who publicly denounces the action and that, in turn, causes the bully to set his flame thrower to extra-crispy. Hard to know when to speak up and when to ignore, but it might be worth exploring the "ignore" part for a week or two. Who's with me?

al13

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

Jim--

I understand your frustration. I joined this forum in 2017 and after about 3 months, I took a break that lasted for about a year. It was just too unpleasant.
The reality is that we are divided folks who live in a divided country in a divided world. I think that the root of it is the rabid focus on what "I want."

Mr. Spock made a statement near the end of the first Star Trek movie just before he undertook a task to enter the antimatter pod of the warp engine to fix a problem. His mission would save the crew, but was guaranteed to cost his own life. His words to Captain Kirk and the others were that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or of the one." Very little thinking like that seems to be around today. (Yes, there is some, but not a lot.)

A few months ago I watched a movie called "Wonder." It was about a young boy named Augie with facial differences who entered the public school system in the 5th grade after being educated at home to that point. You can imagine what kinds of complications that led to. At a key moment in the movie, the school principal was mediating a meeting after a conflict involving Augie. He made a simple statement that has stuck with me. It was something like, "Augie can't change the way he looks, so we just need to change the way we see him."

People come here to learn. That very fact should tell us that they come here because they clearly understand that there are things that they do not know. I suggest that we should get through our sometimes thick heads that they know that they don't know. That's why they are here. And they don't and can't know about all the people who have previously asked the same questions. They'd like for us to help them fix that...not beat them up about it. And we need to each remember that at one time, we most likely had that identical question.

al13

[quote=Linda From Maine]Click on "all sections" at the bottom of the page to find Close-Up, For Your Consideration, and other volunteer-moderated sections that are more about photography and civility than testosterone-driven egos.

Similar to Old Timer's comment about having received thanks via pm, I too get one or two private thank-you's per month, as well as some public ones. This tells me there are a great many folks who would welcome a kinder, gentler main discussion forum.

When there's a rude criticism, there is usually at least one person who publicly denounces the action and that, in turn, causes the bully to set his flame thrower to extra-crispy.[/quote

Well said. Older isn’t an excuse for for snide remarks, poor manners and personal attacks.

SAVH Loc: La Jolla, CA

Overall, I find UHH to be a very positive experience to which I return daily. Yes,there is far too many snarky comments for my liking. I just move on to another thread. It appears that most of the "snarkyness" comes from people who really are more interested in putting someone or some idea down rather than answering questions or providing meaningful thoughts or suggestions. Fortunately, we always have people like Linda from Maine, Steve Perry, and so many others who make significant contributions.

Scotty

47greyfox Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range

You should have capitalized the first letter (I) of your posting. Also, "reply's" is not possessive in this case, should be "replies." I'll leave the other to someone else. 🤭😎

Quinn 4

Who came up with idea of the Attic anyway? Out the door with it. Set up a web site call: "Trash Hedgehog" just for people who like to live in the gutter.

ahudina Loc: Browns Point, WA

Jim Bart, well stated and I could not agree more. Thank you for attempting to raise the level of discourse. I hope you/we are successful. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Largobob

I think that as we age, we sometimes become more "invested" in our choice of equipment, or in our opinions regarding technique/composition/lighting, etc. I think we also tend to become more outspoken, and perhaps have a shorter fuse. The internet provides a 'hermetically-sealed' barrier between users...so those acting poorly are not confronted face-to-face by those who they offend. It's too easy to be an a-hole.

Being a member of most any internet forum, involves a give-and-take and live and let live attitude....and a thick skin...and a willingness to just let things pass. There are those who never learned the kindergarten skill of "works and plays well with others." Just my $.02.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Along with not capitalizing the H after a comma. Perhaps we could call it a fair trade off.

"To those who enjoy spell checking and grammar, Hope I got it right."
--Bob

JeffDavidson Loc: Originally Detroit Now Los Angeles

Well stated.

I too have been a little frustrated with demeaning remarks made at the expense of someone trying to learn and improve their skills.

If I may be so bold as to add one thing to your remarks, this is a photography forum and not political. We are all entitled to our beliefs but this is NOT a political forum, it is a photographic forum.

That being said, everyone have a happy, healthy and safe Thanksgiving.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

While I don't disagree with your sentiment, Jim — I strive to be objective — I have to admit to occasionally offending someone with something. MOST of the time, it's unintentional. But Animal House is still my favorite all-time movie.

Some wise person told me, "If you're not irritating someone, you're probably not doing your job. Have courage in your convictions — but back them up with facts." It proved to be GREAT advice.

Another wise someone once told me, "Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one, and anyone can be one." She was right. The key is to avoid showing one or being one.

This IS the Internet. Ever since the early, early days of chat rooms evolved, " 'netiquette" has been dubious at best. A psychologist once told me, "There is something about the anonymity of the Internet that encourages the lobbing of verbal grenades over the cable modem firewall. Be thankful they're just electrons."

People WILL say things on line that they are less likely to say in person. For whatever reason, they like to offload their stress onto other people — random people — by unleashing their egos. I always figure their jabber says more about themselves than whatever or whomever they're jabbering about.

I'm on here for two key reasons: to learn and to give back. The photography and graphic arts business employed me at an ESOP company for over three decades. It was good to me, and made me financially comfortable.

I had the pleasure of traveling all over the USA, training school portrait photographers, sales people, and office managers. Along the way, I produced lots of AV shows and videos, went to many trade shows in the AV production and photo industries, took over a hundred seminars at various photo conventions and Kodak training schools, developed products and software and training curricula, ran half a dozen production departments in a portrait lab during two separate decades (optical days AND digital days)... So I'm here to share what knowledge I can in practical ways. But I don't consider myself expert. I'm still curious, and spend a LOT of spare time reading and watching videos.

By all rights, it should offend me to see people bickering over BS, or worse, throwing it at each other like mad monkeys. But it doesn't bother me, most of the time. I know it's the Internet. I had to develop a thick skin to put up with some of the shenanigans that happen "here," in cyberspace. So I joke it off, and try not to feed the trolls.

Stay or go, but I hope you stay. I'm sorry to note that this sort of rant never changes things. There is always someone new to come along and stir some hate into the pot, or otherwise be a jerk. Sometimes you have to step in a lot of piles to find the magic pony in the woods... but if you need a magic pony, the chase is worth it.

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

Food for thought. I find that a thread usually, repeat usually, degenerates after the original point as been responded to. About then is when to go to the the top of the page and click "Unwatch"

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Thank-you, Linda, for being a pillar of this community. Yes, I support not feeding the trolls.