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Setting aperture and shutter speed - the active vs. the passive approach
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Nov 14, 2018 13:33:33   #
RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
I meant to say that for those new to photography, P mode seems a good choice because it allows you to concentrate solely on composition. I often wish I could remember how I learned about exposure and the properties of aperture and shutter speed - and at what point composition was introduced. Or did composition come first because I had taken a few high school art classes? Egg, chicken


For myself, back in the early days I just quite happy getting a sharp correctly exposed photographs. Composition came into it when I looked through some of dad's books, as a young teenager, (he was a keen photographer for a while) and really kicked in when I joined a local camera club as an older teenager.

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Nov 14, 2018 13:34:39   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
RichardTaylor wrote:
For myself, back in the early days I just quite happy getting a sharp correctly exposed photographs. Composition came into it when I looked through some of dad's books, as a young teenager, (he was a keen photographer for a while) and really kicked in when I joined a local camera club as an older teenager.
Very nice!

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Nov 14, 2018 13:51:57   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
kenievans wrote:
I don't find these types of subjects to be click bait. It is an invitation to an open ended discussion. While I have read and watched hours upon hours of tutorials attempting to learn this great hobby I don't have years of experience. Knowledge is important but just as important is understanding how and when to apply that knowledge and that comes with experience. I don't want to just read some chart for the idea settings in a given situation. That does not involve learning or using critical thinking skills. I want to hear from others with experience and understand why they made the choices they did.

Your snarky response is what elicits emotional responses and causes beginners and less experienced amateurs to hesitate in joining a discussion for fear of being ridiculed or talked down to. While I am a relative beginner I am not shy or intimidated. I don't mind saying at all that I don't care for your attitude or response.

Peace be with you.
I don't find these types of subjects to be click b... (show quote)



Please find it in your heart to give Thomas some latitude as he is from Washington DC where everybody and everything is considered suspicious just because they exist.

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Nov 14, 2018 13:54:17   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
I agree with the dichotomy that you suggest. If subject movement is going to be fast or consist of large movements close to the camera, too slow a shutter speed (leading to motion blur) will do more to ruin the shot than inadequate depth of field (which usually causes localised softness in the foreground and/or the background). So obviously in that situation shutter speed is the main priority.

However, there are plenty of situations where subject movement is not a main concern. An appropriate choice of aperture then becomes the main priority. I shoot mostly landscapes, and my preferred approach is to determine what is the widest aperture that will still give me adequate DOF, then play off shutter speed against ISO. The DOF requirements are usually determined mainly by the foreground - how close any foreground elements are and how important it is to have them sharp.

With landscapes you typically want sharpness to the horizon, so understanding hyperfocal distance helps when choosing aperture and a suitable focus point. I don't stick rigorously to hyperfocal distance when choosing my focus point but it gives a good starting point. If the foreground isn't too critical I'll happily choose a focus point that's a bit further than the hyperfocal distance. That way the distant stuff gets slightly more sharpness at the expense of some foreground softness (which is very often acceptable). For landscapes I see it as OK to focus slightly beyond the hyperfocal distance but I wouldn't want to focus closer than that unless the view to the horizon is definitely not important.

Determining the widest acceptable aperture is something that has to be learned. What makes it tricky is that it's a moving target. Aperture is just one factor that determines DOF. The other factor is how far away the focus point is. But it doesn't take long to get a feel for what's required.

The good thing is, once you've decided on your aperture you can set it and then concentrate on other considerations, such as composition and shutter speed. Even with landscapes shutter speed can be a consideration due to wind-blown vegetation, waves, flowing water and the like. Since ISO is ideally as low as possible, look for a shutter speed that isn't any faster than it needs to be while allowing for any movement within the frame (I use a tripod for landscapes so camera shake isn't an issue). You should see shutter speed requirements as a higher priority over the desirability of a low ISO.

My preference is to use manual mode with auto ISO. Once the aperture has been set you can play off shutter speed against ISO. If you think that the camera's evaluation of the required exposure may be off you can use exposure compensation to allow for the potentially misleading circumstances (e.g. a scene that is predominantly dark but has bright areas that you don't want blown).

A condensed version of my process when shooting landscapes (for sharpness to the horizon) would be something like -

Decide if exposure compensation is needed. Consider the foreground and how close the DOF (i.e the sharpness) need to come. Decide on an aperture then choose a focus point. Play off shutter speed against ISO.

All of that would of course be preceded by a process of deciding on the composition - which is the most important aspect of the whole procedure and a whole nother subject.

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Nov 14, 2018 13:55:53   #
BebuLamar
 
I learned about how to compose a picture much later, perhaps 10-15 years after I took my first picture. At age 11 I learned about aperture, shutter speed and ASA before I ever used a camera. I didn't own a camera until I was 22.

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Nov 14, 2018 15:20:16   #
Angel Star Photography Loc: Tacoma, WA
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The active approach is to first choose the setting that is most important to your result:

1. Shutter speed for freezing or blurring motion
or
2. Aperture for depth of field

Once you've made that important first decision, you then adjust the others in order to achieve your desired exposure.

The passive approach is "If I set a wider aperture (smaller number), it will enable the shutter speed to increase." To me this seems backwards - for want of a better word at the moment - if shutter speed is of primary importance, e.g. shooting birds in flight, or creating a silky water look.

I'd appreciate discussion on how and why you make your choices, and what - in your experience - is most beneficial for newbies. Many thanks!
The active approach is to b first /b choose the ... (show quote)


Hi, Linda, and all,

I am on the active side of things, but admittedly, when I look back over the years starting with film and then finally moving to digital in August 2017, I started out in full automatic. Fundamentally, one must understand the relationships between shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. Additionally, make a study of light. With this foundation, I would recommend starting with the0 full-auto mode, P on most cameras, and focus on composition. Study the results critiquing the composition and paying attention to the choices the camera made with regards to shutter, aperture, and ISO.

Develop an understanding of optics and depth-of-field. This, I believe, is crucial before moving on towards the active approach. As an example, I shot an image of a peacock through a chain-link fence as there was no possibility to get any decent angle without the fence. Rather than waste a lot of time and potentially losing the shot, I shot through the fence. Others around chastised me and said that it would not be a good shot. However, with the appropriate settings, the peacock was in focus and there was no evidence that there was a fence in front. Others were stunned that it was possible. Once there is a rudimentary understanding of optics and depth-of-field, experiment with the aperture mode and allow the camera to select the shutter and ISO. In the experimentation, I recommend taking multiple shots at different apertures of a single subject. Review the images and take note of what happens with the foreground and background of the subject. This, I believe, will help to develop an understanding as well as add to one's arsenal of creativity.

For shutter speed, I would recommend taking shots with the intent to freeze action and to achieve a sharp image. Don't limit oneself to slow-moving targets. Likewise, take multiple shots at different shutter speeds and review the images. Get to know what shutter speeds work best at a given speed of a moving target. Follow the freeze action practice with a practice of intentionally creating motion blur while maintaining the camera still as well as moving the camera.

At this point, I believe that one would have a beginning foundation for choosing the best settings to create their desired image. I will typically work with aperture priority if I am concentrating on achieving a desired depth-of-field view. I use shutter priority when action is typically involved. I will use manual shutter and aperture and auto ISO where I am concentrating on both of the aforementioned situations and full manual where I concentrating on and controlling lighting, noise levels, etc.

Overall, I highly recommend experimentation with the thoughts of, "What if I do this..., What if I do that... Why does it work this way...". Study the works of other photographers, good and bad. Keep an open mind. Just because there are certain rules to follow, bending the rules a bit can create some interesting images. Concentrate more on technique and style rather than equipment, and by all means, get to know the equipment one has at hand.

I think I have probably written more than for which you were seeking and I am stopping here...for now...there is so much more when one needs to solve a problem using specific equipment or the lack thereof and this is where the understanding, creativity, and ingenuity I try to stress really step forward.

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Nov 14, 2018 15:29:55   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
R.G. wrote:
...All of that would of course be preceded by a process of deciding on the composition - which is the most important aspect of the whole procedure and a whole nother subject.
Fantastic information, R.G. Well organized and presented.

As for composition, I know that Sharpshooter has hosted a few topics, but looks like his last one was in March. I'll be watching for a new one by you, and will happily participate

In the meantime, there is part 4 of the topic we did in For Your Consideration last spring:
Considering the Aspects of Light - Composition

Many thanks for your time in this topic!

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Nov 14, 2018 15:31:36   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I learned about how to compose a picture much later, perhaps 10-15 years after I took my first picture. At age 11 I learned about aperture, shutter speed and ASA before I ever used a camera. I didn't own a camera until I was 22.
What were you photographing during those 10 - 15 years?

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Nov 14, 2018 15:44:14   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
Angel Star Photography wrote:
... Concentrate more on technique and style rather than equipment, and by all means, get to know the equipment one has at hand...
A sentiment rarely expressed in this section of UHH, Charles

Your contribution to the thread is greatly appreciated. Comprehensive information and said with obvious passion for the hobby. Many thanks!

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Nov 14, 2018 15:46:42   #
BebuLamar
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
What were you photographing during those 10 - 15 years?


A lot of things but really mostly pictures of people. Family, friends, gathering events etc.. Not so much landscape like I do now. I just framed the pictures to best fit the subjects. I didn't have the ideas of leading line, rule of third etc...

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Nov 14, 2018 15:51:58   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
BebuLamar wrote:
A lot of things but really mostly pictures of people. Family, friends, gathering events etc.. Not so much landscape like I do now. I just framed the pictures to best fit the subjects. I didn't have the ideas of leading line, rule of third etc...
Thanks! Partly I asked because I was thinking you - or maybe not you, lol - had mentioned photography in a lab as part of their work.

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Nov 14, 2018 16:00:40   #
BebuLamar
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Thanks! Partly I asked because I was thinking you - or maybe not you, lol - had mentioned photography in a lab as part of their work.


Oh I never work in a lab if what you meant a scientific lab but I did work in a photo lab. Where I processed film, making prints and also making copy negative from prints and internegative from slides. But that later when I was 28 and I was the manager in a photolab in Northern Virginia. Today I take a lot of pictures as part of my work but I use the cell phone for that. I take pictures to document the machinery that I work on. No art there just snap shot and I use the cell phone because it's a tool issued to me by the company.

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Nov 14, 2018 16:05:40   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
BebuLamar wrote:
... I take pictures to document the machinery that I work on...
I think that was it - a remnant of a partial memory that popped up and caused an itch

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Nov 14, 2018 18:20:16   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
The active approach is to first choose the setting that is most important to your result:

1. Shutter speed for freezing or blurring motion
or
2. Aperture for depth of field

Once you've made that important first decision, you then adjust the others in order to achieve your desired exposure.

The passive approach is "If I set a wider aperture (smaller number), it will enable the shutter speed to increase." To me this seems backwards - for want of a better word at the moment - if shutter speed is of primary importance, e.g. shooting birds in flight, or creating a silky water look.

I'd appreciate discussion on how and why you make your choices, and what - in your experience - is most beneficial for newbies. Many thanks!
The active approach is to b first /b choose the ... (show quote)

I always set my aperture first, as DOF is always my foremost concern (that is after I dialed in my ISO), but its a preference of each person of course!

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Nov 14, 2018 18:32:41   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
speters wrote:
I always set my aperture first, as DOF is always my foremost concern (that is after I dialed in my ISO), but its a preference of each person of course!
Thanks! Do you do any differently when shooting birds?

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