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Another Minor Epiphany
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Sep 18, 2018 08:57:56   #
Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV
 
Well you did say it was your observation! No one can argue with that fact but the results of your observation could be wrong - jury is still out!

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Sep 18, 2018 08:59:49   #
artBob Loc: Near Chicago
 
Bob Locher wrote:
I live on an acreage 8 miles from a town of about 25,000 people and a few miles from a whole lot of wilderness. I love the physical beauty of the area and am primarily interested in landscape photography.

I am interested in lenses. I watch for new releases, I view YouTube reviews and read reviews on many sites. What I have noticed is that the bulk of the offerings there days tend in one direction - high speed wide angle lenses, be they fixed primes or zooms. These are of little interest to me. I have several slower wide primes, and thought they are excellent optically I rarely use them. On my APS-C Sony A6000, I mostly shoot with lenses 60 mm and longer, with also some work using a 30 mm Sigma.

So am I out of step with the rest of the world? The answer is obvious - of course I am. But then I have been most of my life on most things, so I am used to that.

Anyhow, I finally figured out where I am out of synch. And here is my epiphany: Most of the current photography world is geared towards city living and the urban experience. So. Photographers use wide angle lenses to achieve a feeling of room in a crowded environment. "Bokeh" - that term derived from the Japanese that means "$500 more" - is valuable because it tends to isolate a subject from the people around the subject. And to get decent bokeh from a wide angle lens in daylight you need large apertures. Again, shooting in low light levels is primarily an urban thing. If it is dark, there is some semblance of visual privacy from the hordes around the subject. Privacy, space, peace - these are the attributes so missing from the urban scene.

Longer lenses are rarely used; they compress too many people and too much background in an urban setting. Urban photographers are trying to find sanity in the urban rat-race, and of course that ever elusive element: "Cool".

My observation is that photographers who live away from the urban sprawl tend to use longer lenses, since the above imperatives do not rule. Their pictures reflect a slower and more peaceful life; scenics, sunsets, wildlife.

What I find personally unfortunate is that the lens makers are all scrambling to support the urban photographer with high speed wide angle ex pensive glass. I would love to see some really good longer lenses - f3.5 or higher, but super sharp and not weighing very much. And not costing more than a transoceanic business class ticket.

My hope is that if someone at a lens maker would become aware of this dichotomy, they might consider offering a line along the lines I wish for.

Obviously I have tried to reduce a complex subject in a simplistic argument, but I do believe I have hit on something that is real.

I hope any comments to this topic will remain civil and constructive.

Cheers

Bob Locher
I live on an acreage 8 miles from a town of about ... (show quote)

Thought-provoking. Your idea has a definite root in psychology, that most of us want both interaction and serenity. In our very busy world, and with the majority in the US living in an urban environment, our need for relief is likely
Thanks for making my brain work.

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Sep 18, 2018 09:03:33   #
artBob Loc: Near Chicago
 
Gene51 wrote:
What compression? What's urban about fast wide angle lenses?

Taken with a 150-600, full frame @150mm, hand held, F8, 10 frame double row panorama.

I live 3 miles from Manhattan, and 1 mile from the Bronx. I rarely use a focal length shorter than 45mm for lanscapes.

Tele lenses compress. Here's a simple explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography). Personal experience and scholarly article also abound.

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Sep 18, 2018 09:11:24   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
OMG... Don't get him started again!

Andy

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Sep 18, 2018 09:54:24   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
I live in a rural area, shoot mostly landscapes, and I really like the "expanse" that my Sigma 10-20 F3.5 gives me on my D7000. Used it exclusively on our trip to the Utah canyons.

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Sep 18, 2018 09:55:03   #
nikon123 Loc: Toronto, Canada
 
I’ve enjoyed the discussion. I shoot with Nikon and have a wide variety of lenses. I live in the city but am mobile to rural areas. My specific interest now is urban abstract photography. Sometimes my Sigma 10-20 is used and sometimes my Nikon 70-200. It truly depends upon the situation whether large urban or small urban. There may be a correlation between urban and rural dwellers and the lenses that the manufacturers produce but your theory is flawed in that I and many others shoot landscapes with a wide angle lens to capture an entire scene - objects in the foreground, mid-ground, leading lines, etc. However, thanks for posing your theory and keep shooting whatever your choice of focal length.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:24:20   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
I understand your point, but I think you are missing the mark, particularly with street / urban photography. ...

No, Bob Locher did not miss the mark. That was the entire point - that wide angle lenses are better suited to close quarters. You and Gene51 and I seem to be in agreement.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:29:18   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
artBob wrote:
Tele lenses compress. Here's a simple explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography). Personal experience and scholarly article also abound.


Just go away and start your own thread. You still have no clue what you are talking about. Don't hijack this thread like the way you did before.

From your own link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

"Note that linear perspective changes are caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective geometry, regardless of lens used."

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Sep 18, 2018 10:30:02   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
I live in rural Florida, and where you live sounds like a wonderful place (went through your area when I was a young teen - long long ago in a Galaxy far far away) . …. prefer rural and nature photography, as that is where I'd rather be, had my fill of the urban environment as a young man (SoCal, LA, Long Island, etc. heck, you can't drag me to Orlando) ….

I shoot a lot, even in my own backyard, or woods trails leading off my property, and locally, but I still use a mix of focal lengths, depending on mood, perspective, speed (shutter), lighting and subject matter. Shoot the "sweet spot" with each lens, do use zooms and a couple primes, and find myself concentrating on singular or individual subject matter of late - not the whole tree, but an individual leaf or flower, for instance, and using the natural shadows and highlights to make it pop. To me it's a type of therapy, it makes me happy. If you are not shooting for money or clients, then it is YOU that you should be trying to please, it is so much more rewarding.

I'm rambling a bit, but shoot mostly (on walkabout) with a wide to tele zoom, or use something in the 300 and up range for critters, wide open only if necessary, almost always stopped down to the sweet spot of each lens. If I need more light, I carry a cheap reflector (small folding auto windshield aluminum sunshield) don't laugh, they actually work fairly well, and very cheap. Find what works for you and enjoy!!

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Sep 18, 2018 10:33:52   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Bob Locher wrote:
... What I find personally unfortunate is that the lens makers are all scrambling to support the urban photographer with high speed wide angle ex pensive glass. I would love to see some really good longer lenses - f3.5 or higher, but super sharp and not weighing very much. And not costing more than a transoceanic business class ticket. ...

Those of us who have been using Leica and Zeiss lenses can take advantage of the lighter lenses with smaller wide open apertures. The used versions are reasonably priced and, since they are seldom used wide open, most aberrations are eliminated. Even the less expensive new lenses (Voigtlander) are quite nice stopped down to f/8 or f/11.

There is one compelling reason to look for a telephoto with a wide aperture. It's focus speed and accuracy, not shallow DoF which comes naturally with a long focal length.

If someone wants a shallow DoF with a wide angle lens, it's a lot cheaper to simply increase the focal length and step back from the subject.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:45:31   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
gvarner wrote:
I live in a rural area, shoot mostly landscapes, and I really like the "expanse" that my Sigma 10-20 F3.5 gives me on my D7000. Used it exclusively on our trip to the Utah canyons.

A lot of people use wide angle lenses for landscape but it is virtually impossible to get a shallow DoF from them. In fact, autofocus is pretty much a waste of money because the DoF is very wide, even at large apertures.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:50:39   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Gene51 wrote:
Just go away and start your own thread. You still have no clue what you are talking about. Don't hijack this thread like the way you did before.

From your own link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

"Note that linear perspective changes are caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective geometry, regardless of lens used."

We should not expect too much from him. He didn't bother to read or did not understand the very link he provided.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:52:57   #
artBob Loc: Near Chicago
 
Gene51 wrote:
Just go away and start your own thread. You still have no clue what you are talking about. Don't hijack this thread like the way you did before.

From your own link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_distortion_(photography)

"Note that linear perspective changes are caused by distance, not by the lens per se – two shots of the same scene from the same distance will exhibit identical perspective geometry, regardless of lens used."

I was hoping Gene and others would not start up, and I am not going to bother after this final post:
For the sake of new photographers who might wonder why a particular photo looks (excuse the technical jargon here) goofy, check your lens. Any lens other than "normal" does not "see" the way we normally do.
For others who want to actually look and verify what is true rather than be faithful to someone's dogma, a simple experiment. Shoot the same scene (a city street is the best example) from the same place using a wide angle, normal, and telephoto lens. If you can't see the difference in linear perspective, stack them in an editing program, each at low opacity, and just TRY to make them line up without distorting (you will have to zoom in on the normal and wide photos).

Seeing is believing, facts do not care about beliefs.

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Sep 18, 2018 10:59:12   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
artBob wrote:
Seeing is believing, facts do not care about beliefs.

You have been provided with the facts - even using our own illustrations - but refuse to believe them.
artBob wrote:
I was hoping Gene and others would not start up, and I am not going to bother after this final post

Thanks for that small blessing.

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Sep 18, 2018 11:00:02   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
artBob wrote:
I was hoping Gene and others would not start up, and I am not going to bother after this final post:
For the sake of new photographers who might wonder why a particular photo looks (excuse the technical jargon here) goofy, check your lens. Any lens other than "normal" does not "see" the way we normally do.
For others who want to actually look and verify what is true rather than be faithful to someone's dogma, a simple experiment. Shoot the same scene (a city street is the best example) from the same place using a wide angle, normal, and telephoto lens. If you can't see the difference in linear perspective, stack them in an editing program, each at low opacity, and just TRY to make them line up without distorting (you will have to zoom in on the normal and wide photos).

Seeing is believing, facts do not care about beliefs.
I was hoping Gene and others would not start up, a... (show quote)


You may be holding the minority view here. Not bothering to respond may be a good decision.

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