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Digital vs Film
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Aug 16, 2018 13:00:01   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
TriX wrote:
Well, I guess it’s a philosophical well as a technical discussion. I have spent most of my life in the computer industry, starting with IBM in the mid 60s, and retiring from Oracle a couple of years ago, and I’m still debating if the technology we have brought to this world has enhanced our quality of life. On one hand, our instant access to knowledge is amazing. modern medicine has allowed us to survive previously fatal illnesses, but our increased specialization has made the majority of our society apparently incapable of repairing our own cars, maintaining our yards, producing our own food, etc. So, what has this to do with photography? It’s the contrast of the virtual versus the real. Our digital images, unless printed, only exist as long as we have electricity to store and display them. Our electronic books on our readers exist only as long as the storage and internet survives. It may be nostalgia, but I find value in a real newspaper in the morning (rather than the electronic version on my IPad), the feel of a real book in my hands (rather than an EReader), an actual map (rather than Google maps and Siri) and the physical continuity of a real negative and a silver print.
Well, I guess it’s a philosophical well as a techn... (show quote)


I understand where you’re coming from. But I moved from analog to digital media for the advantages of immediacy, simultaneous multiplicity af access, speed and ease of access...

As for newspapers, I miss great journalism a lot more than I miss the paper.

I’m happy not to read a map, but listen to turn-by-turn direction instead. I do keep a paper road atlas, but like the stupid DVD map system in my car, it was out of date before it was sold.

My phone is my book, magazine, and much more.

Nostalgia isn’t necessarily a set of bad habits, but it can be.

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Aug 16, 2018 13:05:04   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
jakraig wrote:
I'm old so I have used a lot of old glass although I don't have most of it any more, but, there is one extraordinary lens in that classification, the Nikon 70-210 F:4. What a wonderful crisp lens from end to end. They are still to be had today at really cheap prices. If you see one snap it up, you will be impressed.


Tempting. Very tempting. My issue with it would be that, like all of Nikon's first-series of AF lenses, this 70-210 has a dinky, metal focusing ring. I guess that Nikon engineers all thought that, if a lens had AF, then nobody was going to want to focus manually. I DO! Often. And those tiny, darn-near-useless focus rings on the initial AF Nikkors were so horrible that Nikon redesigned the exterior of all their AF lenses within just a couple years because of public out cry. I had a few of them (not this one, but others). Hated them. Couldn't wait to "unload" them on EBAY. Yes, for a good, sharp lens, for sure the EBAY price is attractive. But I would almost certainly hate myself in the morning.

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Aug 17, 2018 08:07:42   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
FWIW: "Comparing modern DSLR image quality with 35mm Ektachrome is totally pointless unless there is something about the look of film and scanning that you prefer and simply can't duplicate with digital. If that is so, nobody has defined that for me.

"Maybe it has more to do with using old cameras and having a 'film' experience... whatever that means to you."

Found this opinion in the comments at: https://www.dpreview.com/news/4704907054/kodak-begins-shipping-ektachrome-film-to-select-photographers-for-testing
'''''
My view: Film photography now fills a niche for those photographers who enjoy and appreciate it. But in my opinion, they should stop trying to defend or present it as somehow better than digital photography.

They should instead describe their experience with film photography as it presents itself to them, separate and apart from digital photography, just as users of other niche photography do.

For my part, I did film photography for a short while when it dominated the craft of photography, using a Yashica Mat 124 camera. I took a couple memorable family photos. But I used a lab to process my negatives and make prints. I never had my own lab due both to cost and convenience. I moved around too much. So I gave up photography until the digital era in photography began.

I say long live film photography for those individuals who practice it.

All must allow, however, that the advent of new photographic technology has given us digital means of photography. The future of photography belongs to digital.

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Aug 17, 2018 08:32:38   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
anotherview wrote:
FWIW: "Comparing modern DSLR image quality with 35mm Ektachrome is totally pointless unless there is something about the look of film and scanning that you prefer and simply can't duplicate with digital. If that is so, nobody has defined that for me.

"Maybe it has more to do with using old cameras and having a 'film' experience... whatever that means to you."

Found this opinion in the comments at: https://www.dpreview.com/news/4704907054/kodak-begins-shipping-ektachrome-film-to-select-photographers-for-testing
'''''
My view: Film photography now fills a niche for those photographers who enjoy and appreciate it. But in my opinion, they should stop trying to defend or present it as somehow better than digital photography.

They should instead describe their experience with film photography as it presents itself to them, separate and apart from digital photography, just as users of other niche photography do.

For my part, I did film photography for a short while when it dominated the craft of photography, using a Yashica Mat 124 camera. I took a couple memorable family photos. But I used a lab to process my negatives and make prints. I never had my own lab due both to cost and convenience. I moved around too much. So I gave up photography until the digital era in photography began.

I say long live film photography for those individuals who practice it.

All must allow, however, that the advent of new photographic technology has given us digital means of photography. The future of photography belongs to digital.
FWIW: "Comparing modern DSLR image quality w... (show quote)


Very well said.
In what has become a tedious thread, what annoyed me was the suggestion that many digital photographers know that film is superior; but fueled by lazyness, lack of concern for best quality, for the sake of convenience, or whatever; have abandoned film and now shoot digital.
That is simply not true; nor has the convenience of digital created a "sad state of affairs."

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Aug 17, 2018 08:51:51   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
... what annoyed me was the suggestion that many digital photographers know that film is superior ...

There have been many unreasonable claims made on both sides of the argument, most of them in defense of a commitment made with little consideration for or experience with the alternative.

Since I regularly use both film and digital I can see both sides of the argument. There are situations where one approach is better than the other but neither wins hands down in all cases.

Behind all of this is the assumption that it's all about small format photography. It's not.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:14:40   #
DaveC1 Loc: South East US
 
anotherview wrote:
FWIW: "Comparing modern DSLR image quality with 35mm Ektachrome is totally pointless unless there is something about the look of film and scanning that you prefer and simply can't duplicate with digital. If that is so, nobody has defined that for me.

"Maybe it has more to do with using old cameras and having a 'film' experience... whatever that means to you."

Found this opinion in the comments at: https://www.dpreview.com/news/4704907054/kodak-begins-shipping-ektachrome-film-to-select-photographers-for-testing
'''''
My view: Film photography now fills a niche for those photographers who enjoy and appreciate it. But in my opinion, they should stop trying to defend or present it as somehow better than digital photography.

They should instead describe their experience with film photography as it presents itself to them, separate and apart from digital photography, just as users of other niche photography do.

For my part, I did film photography for a short while when it dominated the craft of photography, using a Yashica Mat 124 camera. I took a couple memorable family photos. But I used a lab to process my negatives and make prints. I never had my own lab due both to cost and convenience. I moved around too much. So I gave up photography until the digital era in photography began.

I say long live film photography for those individuals who practice it.

All must allow, however, that the advent of new photographic technology has given us digital means of photography. The future of photography belongs to digital.
FWIW: "Comparing modern DSLR image quality w... (show quote)


Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two postings; same subject mater, same photographer, one shot with film and the other digital. Can you see any difference?

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-548336-1.html

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-547949-1.html

Everybody agrees with the advantages of digital. There are some of us here that think film has to use a non technical term (and to attempt not to get into a further argument over which media has better resolution) a better look to it.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:29:14   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
DaveC1 wrote:
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two postings; same subject mater, same photographer, one shot with film and the other digital. Can you see any difference?

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-548336-1.html

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-547949-1.html

Everybody agrees with the advantages of digital. There are some of us here that think film has to use a non technical term (and to attempt not to get into a further argument over which media has better resolution) a better look to it.
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two po... (show quote)

Other than a slight difference in brightness (brighter red in one and darker blue sky in the other) they both look fine.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:35:26   #
BebuLamar
 
selmslie wrote:
Other than a slight difference in brightness (brighter red in one and darker blue sky in the other) they both look fine.


I can see the differences. I can tell which one is which but I can't say which is better. They are both good.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:35:43   #
Streets Loc: Euless, TX.
 
DaveC1 wrote:
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two postings; same subject mater, same photographer, one shot with film and the other digital. Can you see any difference?

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-548336-1.html

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-547949-1.html

Everybody agrees with the advantages of digital. There are some of us here that think film has to use a non technical term (and to attempt not to get into a further argument over which media has better resolution) a better look to it.
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two po... (show quote)


All I see are two digital images. We cannot compare a digitized version of a film image with a digital image. Just ain't happnin. Both shots and very nice. Aircraft and spacecraft put the meat on my table for over 40 years.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:49:04   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Streets wrote:
All I see are two digital images. We cannot compare a digitized version of a film image with a digital image. Just ain't happnin.

Maybe you need to step away from your computer. Look at a book or visit a gallery. You might learn something new.

There is more to life than digital.

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Aug 17, 2018 09:51:43   #
Streets Loc: Euless, TX.
 
selmslie wrote:
Maybe you need to step away from your computer. Look at a book or visit a gallery. You might learn something new.

There is more to life than digital.


Nice response smellslie.

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Aug 17, 2018 12:22:53   #
DaveC1 Loc: South East US
 
Streets wrote:
All I see are two digital images. We cannot compare a digitized version of a film image with a digital image. Just ain't happnin. Both shots and very nice. Aircraft and spacecraft put the meat on my table for over 40 years.


Well Streets, you may not have that ability but I, for one, certainly do.

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Aug 17, 2018 12:38:37   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
DaveC1 wrote:
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two postings; same subject mater, same photographer, one shot with film and the other digital. Can you see any difference?

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-548336-1.html

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-547949-1.html

Everybody agrees with the advantages of digital. There are some of us here that think film has to use a non technical term (and to attempt not to get into a further argument over which media has better resolution) a better look to it.
Okay, why don't we all take a look at these two po... (show quote)


All very fine photos, but as someone else just said, we're looking at digital images of scanned film. I think that process loses something not matter how well it's done. I guessed correctly which was which without scrolling down to see the description of the film used. I spent more years shooting film that I've spent shooting digital. I'm familiar with the different appearance to begin with and what it looks like when it is scanned.

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Aug 17, 2018 12:49:19   #
BebuLamar
 
therwol wrote:
All very fine photos, but as someone else just said, we're looking at digital images of scanned film. I think that process loses something not matter how well it's done. I guessed correctly which was which without scrolling down to see the description of the film used. I spent more years shooting film that I've spent shooting digital. I'm familiar with the different appearance to begin with and what it looks like when it is scanned.


And so I printed my negative and now I lost the darkroom I project my slides.

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Aug 17, 2018 13:07:28   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
selmslie wrote:
That sounds a bit defensive.

In my statement If you want to spray and pray..., "you" was used as a figure of speech. If you took "you" personally then maybe it struck too close to home.

If I had used "we" instead of "you" maybe you would not have taken offense.


Scotty, NO offense or personal attachment taken.
I interpreted, "spray and prey(S&P)", as a technique that takes no skill by those that have no skill, not as an alternative professional technique, no different than using a tripod or ND filter to be used as needed in a situation that will improve our chances of landing the shot just as we envision prior to shooting!
Not defensive but I do speak up if a technique used at any given time by every sports professional on this planet is used to imply a mindless way to shoot by beginners that don't know how to get results. That said, cameras don't use themselves, we need to know how to use them.
The following is a good example of combing everything both of us have said. Taken with a Canon 5Dmkll, with a focus system that sucks for action and a pedestrian frame rate!


(Download)

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