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Jul 28, 2018 10:41:50   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Modern mirrorless have a sunlight setting allowing you to view the rear screen in brightest sunlight, no problem. I have this on both my Sony A7RIII and A7III. And of course bright sunlight doesn't affect your EVF at all. They are the low light kings, bar none. And between Sony, Sigma, Tamron, Laowa, Maike, Samyang/Rokinon and others there are over 100 quality and professional grade E-mount lenses and more coming.



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Jul 28, 2018 10:45:43   #
tuschapa
 
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I have a bunch of lenses, so all I had to pay for was the body. On a hunch I also bought a Sony alpha a6500 plus a few (inexpensive) lenses. The D850 is a terrific machine, but when I took it on a two week group vacation to the Rhine Valley I found its weight was very restricting. When you are in a group (not primarily photographers) it moves a little too fast to set up a tripod and in dark places, like cathedrals I had to brace myself against columns or walls to avoid camera shake. As to the Sony; I took it to New York City for some street photography with my grandchildren and it did a very respectable job, but not as good as the Nikon. Of course, the Sony is a crop sensor camera, so you get what you pay for. However, the light weight was much appreciated and I started thinking of selling all my Nikon equipment and go for the Sony 7r III full frame mirrorless. I went to the extent of renting one from Lensrentals with a medium range full frame zoom. It's a very nice camera but still not equal to the Nikon. Of course, I am inexperienced with the Sony, so it might be my fault.
To summarize, I am looking forward to the Nikon mirrorless full frame. They promised to make an adapter for F mount lenses so we don't have to rush out and immediately buy all new glass. I am assuming that the quality and capabilities will be on par with their full frame DSLR-s. I hope they will be able to make lenses for it that don't weigh a ton. I am in my eighties and lugging a lot of equipment around is getting a bit too much.

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Jul 28, 2018 10:46:12   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Sony has been making and selling sensors to Nikon for years for many of their models, and also used to sell them to Canon (which now makes their own). Sony has always been the leader in sensor tech and manufacturing and still makes their own for their own cameras. Sony makes most of the image sensors for your cellphones also. Why wouldn't they keep all their clients.


Who knows, perhaps Sony might still make the small PS Canon sensors.
But they have never made an EOS sensor.

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Jul 28, 2018 10:54:08   #
burkphoto (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
What are some of the mirrorless distinct advantages over DSLR?


There are dozens! Read reviews of the following on http://www.dpreview.com:

Sony a7 III, a7r III, a6500, a9

Panasonic G9, GH5, GH5s

Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II

Fujifilm XH-1, XT-2

These are most of the best mirrorless cameras on the market today.

I used Canon AND Nikon from 1968 to 2012. Now I use Panasonic. I would never go back to a dSLR for the training content development work I do (stills and video).

It’s a good thing for everyone that Canikon are getting into serious mirrorless. The vast majority of innovations in digital cameras have, for the last decade, come from the four manufacturers listed above.

Read the reviews. I think you’ll be astounded!

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Jul 28, 2018 10:57:16   #
jimisready
 
I Am thinking Sony Sensor manufacturing is a separate division from the camera manufacturing portion.
In order to keep the sensor business intact they work with Nikon specs and other manufacturers so not
To harm or lose business with conflicts of interest IMHO.

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Jul 28, 2018 10:57:44   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
tuschapa wrote:
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I have a bunch of lenses, so all I had to pay for was the body. On a hunch I also bought a Sony alpha a6500 plus a few (inexpensive) lenses. The D850 is a terrific machine, but when I took it on a two week group vacation to the Rhine Valley I found its weight was very restricting. When you are in a group (not primarily photographers) it moves a little too fast to set up a tripod and in dark places, like cathedrals I had to brace myself against columns or walls to avoid camera shake. As to the Sony; I took it to New York City for some street photography with my grandchildren and it did a very respectable job, but not as good as the Nikon. Of course, the Sony is a crop sensor camera, so you get what you pay for. However, the light weight was much appreciated and I started thinking of selling all my Nikon equipment and go for the Sony 7r III full frame mirrorless. I went to the extent of renting one from Lensrentals with a medium range full frame zoom. It's a very nice camera but still not equal to the Nikon. Of course, I am inexperienced with the Sony, so it might be my fault.
To summarize, I am looking forward to the Nikon mirrorless full frame. They promised to make an adapter for F mount lenses so we don't have to rush out and immediately buy all new glass. I am assuming that the quality and capabilities will be on par with their full frame DSLR-s. I hope they will be able to make lenses for it that don't weigh a ton. I am in my eighties and lugging a lot of equipment around is getting a bit too much.
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I hav... (show quote)


Unfortunately until there is some major breakthrough in lens technology a certain aperture needs to be a certain diameter to let the light in. That means a bigger lens. Then add IS and motor in the lens there needs to be space in the lens for those as well as to allow for the motion. DO lenses are answering the call for shorter long teles but that does not solve the other problems yet. I look at my FD lenses of the same focal lengths and apertures and they are so much smaller in diameter.

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Jul 28, 2018 11:06:19   #
gwilliams6
 
tuschapa wrote:
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I have a bunch of lenses, so all I had to pay for was the body. On a hunch I also bought a Sony alpha a6500 plus a few (inexpensive) lenses. The D850 is a terrific machine, but when I took it on a two week group vacation to the Rhine Valley I found its weight was very restricting. When you are in a group (not primarily photographers) it moves a little too fast to set up a tripod and in dark places, like cathedrals I had to brace myself against columns or walls to avoid camera shake. As to the Sony; I took it to New York City for some street photography with my grandchildren and it did a very respectable job, but not as good as the Nikon. Of course, the Sony is a crop sensor camera, so you get what you pay for. However, the light weight was much appreciated and I started thinking of selling all my Nikon equipment and go for the Sony 7r III full frame mirrorless. I went to the extent of renting one from Lensrentals with a medium range full frame zoom. It's a very nice camera but still not equal to the Nikon. Of course, I am inexperienced with the Sony, so it might be my fault.
To summarize, I am looking forward to the Nikon mirrorless full frame. They promised to make an adapter for F mount lenses so we don't have to rush out and immediately buy all new glass. I am assuming that the quality and capabilities will be on par with their full frame DSLR-s. I hope they will be able to make lenses for it that don't weigh a ton. I am in my eighties and lugging a lot of equipment around is getting a bit too much.
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I hav... (show quote)


Yes your inexperience with Sony made a difference. The Sony A7RIII is every bit the equal of the D850 in image quality. Both scored 100 in DXO testing. But The A7RIII has the distinct mirrorless advantages that NO DSLR can physically ever have. And the D850 really fails in the area of video autofocusing. This has the be fixed in Nikon's upcoming fullframe mirrorless camera for it to compete with Sony's best which have great video and still autofocusing. . And the A7RIII garnished more camera-of-the-year awards than the excellent D850. BTW the new A7III has become the world's best selling FULLFRAME camera, wresting that title away from the D850. Cheers.

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Jul 28, 2018 11:15:28   #
jerryc41 (a regular here)
 
NJose wrote:
This week in a B&H email there was an article/ad about Nikon's new mirrolress DSLR coming soon (see link below). There are rumors about Canon also coming out with their own as well. That's great that they are finally getting into the game. I would expect that these two giant's will knock the socks of Sony with all of years of experience.

But, what was real interesting to me was the confirmation that the Nikon mirrorless will feature a brand-new mount (no official word from Canon yet), one that Nikon claims opens the door for groundbreaking optical opportunities. Now, bringing it home, that puts me in a bind, because I was looking to purchase the Canon 100-400 IS II L lens this year and a new camera in 2019 or early 2020. There is talk about an adapter, but who know how that will work out. My budget is limited and I hate to spend money into a dying line.

Your thoughts on continuing to invest in the current line of DSLR?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless?utm_medium=Email%201686209&utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_source=Newsletter%20180725&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=nikons-exciting-entry-into-full-frame-mirrorless&encEmail=964B8F39F761D7DFF6FF726CA3679A786B3059AF55EC711E95DC83FAE9BD5BF9
This week in a B&H email there was an article/... (show quote)


That had to be a tough decision for Nikon - giving up on the F mount. They must have had a good reason, though. Sometimes, we have to give up the past and embrace the future. Whatever you buy today will continue to work into the future, even though it might not be compatible with future equipment.

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Jul 28, 2018 11:21:27   #
gwilliams6
 
jerryc41 wrote:
That had to be a tough decision for Nikon - giving up on the F mount. They must have had a good reason, though. Sometimes, we have to give up the past and embrace the future. Whatever you buy today will continue to work into the future, even though it might not be compatible with future equipment.


Nikon plans to still make and support their DSLR folks with cameras and lenses, they are just resolved to compete fully in the top-end fullframe mirrorless market this year with new cameras and new lenses, and maybe also in the medium-format mirrorless market in the future .

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Jul 28, 2018 11:23:55   #
deepdiverv
 
The way I understand is that Sony makes the sensor for the D850 but is designed by Nikon

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Jul 28, 2018 11:30:59   #
burkphoto (a regular here)
 
jerryc41 wrote:
That had to be a tough decision for Nikon - giving up on the F mount. They must have had a good reason, though. Sometimes, we have to give up the past and embrace the future. Whatever you buy today will continue to work into the future, even though it might not be compatible with future equipment.


A mark of an intelligent company is often its willingness to cannibalize its own products to create something newer and better.

Frankly, I thought Nikon should have created a new mount long ago. Like, say, 1987?

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Jul 28, 2018 11:43:36   #
Architect1776 (a regular here)
 
burkphoto wrote:
A mark of an intelligent company is often its willingness to cannibalize its own products to create something newer and better.

Frankly, I thought Nikon should have created a new mount long ago. Like, say, 1987?


If memory serves me Canon did so ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS ) and Nikon fanboys excoriated them to this day for that brilliant move seeing as 95% of today's digital camera users have no clue what an FD lens is let alone ever used one. Because of that brilliant visionary move going digital/electronic they were able to make lenses then that are 100% compatible with the latest cameras today with no loss of features. All EOS cameras too, not just a select few are compatible across the entire range of lenses. Yes the M requires an adapter to mount but no loss of function and so it will be with the Canon FF mirrorless camera if an adapter is needed. All your EF lenses will work just fine with AF and aperture and focus as they do now.

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Jul 28, 2018 11:50:39   #
Rich1939 (a regular here)
 
tuschapa wrote:
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I have a bunch of lenses, so all I had to pay for was the body. On a hunch I also bought a Sony alpha a6500 plus a few (inexpensive) lenses. The D850 is a terrific machine, but when I took it on a two week group vacation to the Rhine Valley I found its weight was very restricting. When you are in a group (not primarily photographers) it moves a little too fast to set up a tripod and in dark places, like cathedrals I had to brace myself against columns or walls to avoid camera shake. As to the Sony; I took it to New York City for some street photography with my grandchildren and it did a very respectable job, but not as good as the Nikon. Of course, the Sony is a crop sensor camera, so you get what you pay for. However, the light weight was much appreciated and I started thinking of selling all my Nikon equipment and go for the Sony 7r III full frame mirrorless. I went to the extent of renting one from Lensrentals with a medium range full frame zoom. It's a very nice camera but still not equal to the Nikon. Of course, I am inexperienced with the Sony, so it might be my fault.
To summarize, I am looking forward to the Nikon mirrorless full frame. They promised to make an adapter for F mount lenses so we don't have to rush out and immediately buy all new glass. I am assuming that the quality and capabilities will be on par with their full frame DSLR-s. I hope they will be able to make lenses for it that don't weigh a ton. I am in my eighties and lugging a lot of equipment around is getting a bit too much.
I bought the Nikon D850 body late last year. I hav... (show quote)


And the moral of this story is....................
Stay away from group therapy

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Jul 28, 2018 11:55:25   #
CatMarley
 
BebuLamar wrote:
My position since I don't want the mirrorless I would see if the world switch to mirrorless then I can buy my dream DSLR for less.
Now as far as the lens mount Canon may want to keep their existing EF mount for the reason that the EF mount has great lens to body interface which is all electronics. The only disadvantage is the flange distance which is too long for mirrorless and result in bigger camera but this issue is moot when you use long lens. Also the shorter flange distance allows for better design of the wide angle lens. However, Canon may take this disadvantage and keep the new camera compatible with the existing lens. So the new camera would have all the lenses it needs when it's introduced plus the fact it would make many Canon users happy. But in the case of new mount the adapter should work well and is easy to make.
In the case of Nikon, they change the mount because there are many incompatibility issues with their existing F mount and many lenses require significant amount of mechanical couplings which are expensive to build in a body yet not performing better.
My position since I don't want the mirrorless I wo... (show quote)


Once Canon and Nikon put out a pro level mirrorless, the old mirror and prism will begin to die a fairly rapid death - just like film cameras.did.

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Jul 28, 2018 12:03:46   #
chrisg-optical
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Why Sony is killing it right now and Nikon and Canon are scrambling to catch up. A GOOD EXPLAINATION OF MIRRORLESS ADVANTAGES

http://sonyaddict.com/2018/07/28/the-art-of-photography-why-sony-is-absolutely-killing-it-right-now/


There are a few but size and weight are not two of them, unless you're talking M43 (Oly and Pana). For FF the bulk of the weight will always be in the lens for decent lenses of longer focal length (i.e., nature, bird, sports, etc.) or wide aperture - f/2.8 or larger. Glass is heavy and decent quality lens barrels are metal which add to the weight and bulk - plastic and rubber outer coverings reduce the weight a bit. For street photography a normal range lens will be smaller and lighter so ML has the advantage there, slightly.

Noise (audible) and vibration - ML has the key advantage there - good for journalism/ nature up close where you want to be not seen and not heard. Opens up new possibilities for macro applications. But of course some DSLRs (D850 comes to mind) has a silent mode just for these applications.

Back to the future- the ability to buffer frames before pressing the shutter is a definite plus - implemented on the OM-D M1 I believe - not sure if the other brands/models have this but certainly doable - ML cams are really video cameras in disguise. Good for fast action shots. Skillful practice on DSLRs will enable one to capture the key moment via anticipation.

Exposure preview (real time) - nice to have on ML but not absolutely necessary in the digital age.

No mirror - better reliability - only moving part is the shutter and that may eventually go away too.

For me the benefits of ML are nice but not so compelling that I have to immediately sell my DSLR on ebay and get that Sony - or Nikon - or whatever ML system like yesterday. I will wait and see where technology takes us.

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