chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

An Apple, which by the way is also based on Intel, is a closed shop. The OS and hardware (other than the CPU of course which is made by Intel) is made by only one company. There are certain advantages to this - for example if you design the motherboard and it exhibits certain quirks you can rewrite the OS to compensate etc. Hence updating is a lot easier. Makes the Apple a product that does not require as much input from a user. Apple has about 10-12% of the market so there is obviously a demand for a product like this. Hardware wise it is no more reliable than a well built PC (emphasis here on well built). Apple and other brands of Windows based PCs are all made in Asia so the factories where they are made are similar and the reliability is similar.
I guess you should not refer to a Windows based PC as being Intel (Windows) without also referring to Apple as Intel (IOS).
Now there are plenty of reasons why a lot of people don't like the Intel (IOS) way of doing things so they go the Intel (Windows) way. Here is a partial list -
PROs
a. bang for buck they are cheaper
b. infinitely more upgradable
c. a very much larger range of software available
d. choice of color, shape and formats
e. huge range of vendors so you can get deals
f. much more powerful PCs can be built
g. a very much larger range of hardware can be used
h. tends to be much more innovative market
i. and a host of others
CONs
a. saddled with Windows and all its horrors (the horrors are caused by trying to make a standard product work with all the PROs above)

Isn't this an interesting world. I am a PC user in case you hadn't worked that out. I had an Intel (IOS) for a time but decided it didn't do it for me (most things) so got rid of it.

srt101fan

Thanks AirWalter, I never heard of ESET but will give it a look. I've used Norton, Avast, and AVG but I'm never sure what they're really doing for me!

AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio

I knew that Intel(windows) thing was going to cause problems when I wrote it, but I was worried about my stupid pizza getting ready for me to attack it so I just left it go. Most of the quirks that appear on windows machines are caused by third party software manufacturers, not Microsoft.

" The OS and hardware (other than the CPU of course which is made by Intel) is made by only one company. There are certain advantages to this - for example if you design the motherboard and it exhibits certain quirks you can rewrite the OS to compensate etc. Hence updating is a lot easier. Makes the Apple a product that does not require as much input from a user." If you really believe that statement I have some ocean front property in Arizona I need to sell. Are you telling me that apple makes all their own hardware except the cpu? Since when did Apple start making memory or their own motherboards? What you described by apple rewriting their operating system to compensate for quirks is exactly the same thing as windows updates. The main reason that updates are easier and not as frequent with apple as compared to Microsoft is because there simply is not near as many third party software manufacturers trying to get their poorly written software to work with their products. Thus less problems for them to cope with - - case closed. Geeezz, I give up!

AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio

You are quite welcome. Most people haven't heard of them. They are located in Switzerland I think, I know it somewhere around there. The next best program is Kaspersky, which was founded and owned by a Russian. Go figure, but they are also very good at what they do. The only thing with them right now is that the last 2 years they have started to include some unnecessary side things in their software that slow computers down just a little. You will like EST if you try it.

chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

One of the biggest issues for a manufacturer, especially if they get their products made in China, is Quality Control. I know that Apple doesn't make their own memory or their own motherboards BUT wherever they source them from there is only one QA applied to them and that is Apples. You can't say that about the plethora of products that go into an Intel (Windows ) PC. Although you will find that, for example HP, probably do a not too bad QA on their systems. BUT in the case of HP, for example, HP does not have any control over the OS - or vice versa. Whereas Apple does hence less problems. Windows has to allow for many hundreds of quirks whereas Apple only has to worry about a few.
And you should not give up.

AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio

Good Lord, wherever they get them from is the same place and same manufacturers that supply Microsoft. That is a fact! You have never looked into building a computer yourself, have you? Do you know who Newegg is? HP is not one of the better computer manufacturers. They are way to proprietary and they use the cheapest parts they can obtain. Their main concern and only concern is profits, not customer satisfaction. You can go to any number of so called mainstream computer manufacturers and buy a computer from them for - - oh say $2800. I can buy my own better quality products and build that same specification computer for around $800 to $1000 cheaper. Fact! I have done it for the last 35 yrs or so. Not so much anymore, because I am 75 and I am getting tired of it all. I am not giving up, because I know what I know. I am just tired of trying to make people believe that they don't know what they think they know. I normally don't write like this too much on line with other folks because it causes too many conflicts. I spend too much time alone now since losing my soulmate to cancer 3 yrs ago and in may of this yr I lost my other anchor. Miley, a long haired all white silver shaded Persian cat who was as faithful as a dog. She slept right next to me every night and usually with her head on my shoulder. I miss her terribly and sometimes recently I get carried away in some discussions. Please forgive me if I offend anyone. It is not my intention.

jtlareau Loc: Hurst, TX (originally Toledo, OH)

One thing you should know about Kaspersky is that US Intel agencies have banned it on all government computers due to suspected spying and/or potential for hacking... Similar yto banning ZTE and Huawei phones on military bases.

AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio

Yeah, I heard about that, but I kind of thought it was kind of a political thing. Who knows? Thanks.

Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA

The answer would be price. And most businesses use PC's. Business software etc is based on PC's where people work.
As far as I know Apple does not have any biz software. I wanted PC's to be great. I video edit and handle big graphics
and a PC with a huge amount of RAM and killer performance would be great. And the price would be much better.
If I had replace my Mac 27 inch (machine going of 6-7 years) it would cost 3-5k.

chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand

Hang on. The people who manufacture hardware stuff for Apple DON'T supply Microsofts Windows. My point was that your home computer if it is a Mac is supplied by a company who have control over the hardware AND the software. If it is a Windows based PC then 2, or many more, companies have control over the end product. It is because MS has no control over final implementation of the hardware but their software is expected to work with ALL of them. That is why Windows gives you all this heartache (that second to last sentence isn't completely true since MS advise what their software will do but not all hardware suppliers will follow this exactly).
Hang on. I built my own PC, my wife's PC, 2 other PCs at home here, plus about 3000 others in my job before I retired. I still maintain my home stuff and advise plenty of others. I maintain my 4 laptops. I started this about 45 years ago working on, initially analog computers before going digital.
And when I sold commercial systems I sold HP because they gave me the least amount of trouble. I sold and use WD drives for the same reason. One of the reasons why I sold HP was because you could purchase up to a 5 year on-site warranty (on the hardware) whereas you build your own, probably for cheaper, but the best case warranty is 3 years on a collection of parts - do your own troubleshooting and running around. There is no doubt that serious workstations can be built for much cheaper BUT they still have to run (mostly) Windows.
And second last I am only a few years younger than you. I keep my mind sharp by a bit of light verbal (as it were) sparring with the likes of you. I am not offended, far from it. I do like for people to use the facts however and when I have an opportunity to correct some misapprehensions I will take that option. Too many people add 2 + 2 and get either 15 or 1.
If I am not sure of my ground I either keep my mouth shut (actually my typing fingers still) or do further research. And even with my best intentions I still sometimes get it wrong.
Unfortunately there are a few fractious people around who will misconstrue anything and everything maybe for entertainment ?, just can't help themselves, brain wired differently etc.
Now I don't know if an ability not to listen and implement good advice is a left sided or right sided brain function but it will not help you through life if you wander off doing your own thing. Different people will have different views on which is the best camera or operating system but deciding to implement an efficient backup system is universally a good thing.

11bravo

Agreed. Apple has a finite set of hardware, MS does not.

My daughter has a Mac as she's in design. I've used windows for decades. I build my own desktops and like the freedom of picking my own hardware, and the multitude of programs available (many free). I originally did a free upgrade from Windows 7 to 10 just to register the computer as Windows 10, planning to roll back to 7. Liked 10 so much, kept it on my 5 computers.

I upgraded 2 desktops to 1803, no problems, less than an hour. My refurb'd Lenovo T430, no problem. My neighbor's refurb'd T420, no problem. My friend's refurb'd T420, no problem, and that was done remotely, on the other side of the world, as it's in China. I especially appreciate how easy it was to install additional language packs in Windows 10, so she has Chinese and I have English. The only problem I have with Windows 10 is that MS removed WMC, so the 3 HTPC's I take care of remain on Windows 7 (I still use OTA TV). One of the HTPC's is a refurb'd HP, now 8 years old, basically running 24/7. PSU and video card failed/replaced, but that's it.

Point is, software will always have bugs, it's how I made my living for 30 years. Hardware fails, but with my MS OS, I can open the case up and take a look as I know what's inside.

DebAnn Loc: Toronto

Hello all,
I am the originator of this thread and my issue has been solved by Microsoft. This is the official end of the thread. Thanks to all contributors.
Deb