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"P" vs manual
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Jun 12, 2018 16:56:16   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
pithydoug wrote:
Agree. P seldom sets the shutter I need nor gives me the DOF I want. While I can use manual I prefer either shutter or Aperture priority. Call it a compromise but I get exactly what I want.


Nikon, and probably others, only give you a starting point in program mode. If you want a specific shutter speed or aperture, just turn the dial in one direction or the other. The camera will adjust the other to maintain the selected exposure. Exposure compensation lets you select plus or minus in increments you have set the camera to give you. You can get exactly what you want using one dial and if e/c is desired, one button.

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Jun 12, 2018 18:01:22   #
harlequin2
 
100 replies and 100 different opinions! That's what makes photography such a great hobby.

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Jun 12, 2018 19:02:45   #
Rick Bailey Loc: Fayetteville Arkansas
 
I do forensic work and use P almost exclusively, and with the exception of bright outside shots, I always use flash (either built-in or flash unit). I have to cover a lot of ground in a short time, averaging about 70 images per investigation. Flash gives me consistent color representation and usually over-rides flourencent or other existing light. For extreme closeup without shake or blur, I use manual focus and usually macro lenses. Again, always flash. For my personal work, I mostly use manual exposure and focus, but then I have more time to fiddle.

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Jun 12, 2018 19:10:31   #
BebuLamar
 
Bill_de wrote:
Nikon, and probably others, only give you a starting point in program mode. If you want a specific shutter speed or aperture, just turn the dial in one direction or the other. The camera will adjust the other to maintain the selected exposure. Exposure compensation lets you select plus or minus in increments you have set the camera to give you. You can get exactly what you want using one dial and if e/c is desired, one button.

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You're correct! You can get the camera set in P to assume any settings you want. You change the combination of shutter speed and aperture using the program shift feature. You change the exposure using the exposure compensation or with combination of the AEL. However, manual is just simpler if I have to do all that manipulation to get what I want.

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Jun 12, 2018 20:50:47   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
BebuLamar wrote:
You're correct! You can get the camera set in P to assume any settings you want. You change the combination of shutter speed and aperture using the program shift feature. You change the exposure using the exposure compensation or with combination of the AEL. However, manual is just simpler if I have to do all that manipulation to get what I want.


I'm gonna disagree here, Bebu. When I'm just riding around randomly, I leave my cameras set to P (auto back in Nikon film days) and can adjust among the combinations for the indicated EV or adjust exposure combination with the wheel and exposure comp button for a quick shot if necessary. It takes about a second, at most. If I have time, depending on the subject matter, I switch to Aperture, Shutter or Manual - depending on how I envision the final image.

Everyone's needs are different, but for me, the occasion when I absolutely need a quick shot, and don't know what to expect, dictates P as the defense mechanism. When I have time to think about what I'm doing, I shoot in Aperture priority most often, Shutter second most often, and Manual third.

That's the beautiful thing about our hobby - everyone has a different approach and all (even "snapshooting") can produce great results.

Andy

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Jun 12, 2018 21:35:24   #
ORpilot Loc: Prineville, Or
 
pappleg wrote:
There will be endless controversy on this topic. I teach a relatively informal class to seniors using everything from basic cell phones to dslrs and all in between and the way I approach this topic is: First and foremost-Get the Shot!! Photography is forever about fleeting moments; think of how many times you are presented with an absolute stable scene that will not change significantly over many minutes-fairly rare occurrence. I advise shoot 1st on Auto or Program handheld and then if the opportunity still exists move to tripod or other contemplative approaches to refine focus, exposure, depth of focus, viewpoint, etc. If one knows the history of Ansel Adams and his famous Moonrise, Hernandez New Mexico; he was traveling with a large station wagon with a platform on the roof to which he would mount his tripod and 8 X 10 view camera when he happened upon that scene. Without benefit of today's technology he scrambled to get everything set up and could not find his light meter. He knew the exposure of a rising moon, set for that, and hoped to get a chance to bracket. Facing east with the setting sun lighting the gravestones in the foreground he made an exposure and while turning the film holder to get a second the sun went below the horizon and the magic was gone. He processed the negative carefully and luckily he was only about one-stop underexposed which he supplemented by toning the negative to get a bit more density and you know the result. A split second delay and he would have missed it completely. The point is take what the scene gives you and go from there-embrace the technology and it may reward you when you least expect it.

Pat
There will be endless controversy on this topic. ... (show quote)


😊👍🏻. I teach photography too and this is exactly what I stress. Get the shot first and if there is time, correct any errors. I go even farther by pointing out the "auto" modes marked in "green" : green is good, green will always take a useable photo. It may not always be the best or exactly like you desire but it will always give you a reasonable photo. Too many newbe's set the WB, ISO, shutter speed, or aperture and forgot to "0" them out and turn their camera on sometime later, only to blow the shot. That is why "green" is good. The camera ignores any changes you you may have made. Happy Shooting

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Jun 12, 2018 21:44:15   #
ballsafire Loc: Lafayette, Louisiana
 
Bill_de wrote:
"... because I have taken the time to learn to use them."

I think in many cases that is the crux of it. If you learn to use the various modes you are not giving up control, but taking control of a more complex system. For some it is easier to defend their ignorance by claiming they won't give up control. But some folks are so proficient with manual that is all they need.

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Jun 13, 2018 00:29:41   #
indigoblues
 
THIS... exactly! This is the way I shoot 100% of the time, only I never use AF... I figure I know exactly where I want focus, not my camera :) And yes, “Edit heavily, and discard even more heavily.” One must learn to be extremely objective and critical of one’s own work—

frjack wrote:
I don't trust the program modes as a result of unhappy experiences the first time I tried Aperture priority. I generally know what I want and most of the time how to get it. Shoot manual. Single focus. Auto focus sometimes and manual at others. Shoot RAW and never worry about WB. Download and process. Perhaps six or seven per batch are worth working on. Edit heavily and discard even more heavily.

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Jun 13, 2018 06:58:59   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
I seem to recall that, back in the 80s, shooters used to joke that the "P" mode stood for "Push here, Dummy", sparking the phrase "PHD camera." The reasoning was that if a photographer just set the camera to "P", then the camera would make all the decisions and the shooter would not/could not really learn the craft. Today, with Program Mode, Auto ISO, Auto White Balance, Auto Focus, et al, how can a beginner REALLY learn? I admit, for someone who "knows his stuff", there can be times when there just isn't time to set the camera oneself and not risk missing the shot. And if a "Newby" just wants "snap-shots" anyway, then what is the harm in starting-out with "P" mode? But can we actually say that a beginner will learn photography without taking charge of at least some of the variables rather than camping out at "Auto Everything?"

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Jun 13, 2018 09:53:33   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
cameraf4 wrote:
But can we actually say that a beginner will learn photography without taking charge of at least some of the variables rather than camping out at "Auto Everything?"


Actually P makes learning very easy. First, using P leaves you in charge, just not in ways you are used to.

But picture this, using any camera with what Nikon calls flexible program. Turn the dial so you are at the widest aperture that mode allows for the scene and take a picture. Check the image and if necessary adjust the exposure compensation. Now take a picture, turn the wheel one click and take another. Keep going through the entire range. You will have a set of properly (to your taste) exposed pictures at a variety of F-stop and Shutter speed combinations. Pretty good learning tool considering you did it all by turning one dial.

The beauty of digital is you don't need a notepad to record all the combinations. All the learning material is right there in the file.

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Jun 13, 2018 10:36:04   #
DanielB Loc: San Diego, Ca
 
Focal points do not control DOF only the photographer can do that.
canadaboy wrote:
Having fiddled around for some time and missing out on way too many photo opportunities fiddling with manual settings, these days I simply set my camera on "P", ISO on Auto with a maximum value set to control the shutter speed, and rely on the number of focus points that I choose to set the depth of field by virtue of the camera selected aperture.

Who else actually trusts their camera and their ability to operate it similarly?

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Jun 13, 2018 10:38:03   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
Bill_de wrote:
Actually P makes learning very easy. First, using P leaves you in charge, just not in ways you are used to.

But picture this, using any camera with what Nikon calls flexible program. Turn the dial so you are at the widest aperture that mode allows for the scene and take a picture. Check the image and if necessary adjust the exposure compensation. Now take a picture, turn the wheel one click and take another. Keep going through the entire range. You will have a set of properly (to your taste) exposed pictures at a variety of F-stop and Shutter speed combinations. Pretty good learning tool considering you did it all by turning one dial.

The beauty of digital is you don't need a notepad to record all the combinations. All the learning material is right there in the file.

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Actually P makes learning very easy. First, using ... (show quote)



Good point. But what happens if we throw-in Auto White Balance and Auto ISO? Can we actually say that we can learn from a camera that makes all the settings on it's own? Would beginners bother to try or just "snap away?"

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Jun 13, 2018 10:54:53   #
Mortsid
 
I'm mostly a street photography, the "P" mode works for me. I always have an adequate iso setting (100-6400+). I can usually remove 99% of noise "without losing detail" using my PP procedure.

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Jun 13, 2018 12:22:16   #
MissSue
 
Mortsid wrote:
I'm mostly a street photography, the "P" mode works for me. I always have an adequate iso setting (100-6400+). I can usually remove 99% of noise "without losing detail" using my PP procedure.


Sounds like you know more about pp than photography... I bet you don’t get too many usable shots with motion... like kids, sports or nature?

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Jun 13, 2018 13:10:11   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
Rick Bailey wrote:
I do forensic work and use P almost exclusively, and with the exception of bright outside shots, I always use flash (either built-in or flash unit). I have to cover a lot of ground in a short time, averaging about 70 images per investigation. Flash gives me consistent color representation and usually over-rides flourencent or other existing light. For extreme closeup without shake or blur, I use manual focus and usually macro lenses. Again, always flash. For my personal work, I mostly use manual exposure and focus, but then I have more time to fiddle.
I do forensic work and use P almost exclusively, a... (show quote)


You might be the only real photographer doing forensic work. here in Hamilton county Ohiio the only ones who take thos kind of pics are police who work for them and their shots are all done in auto mode on very cheap cameras that are usually in the trunk of police cars. I have seen the kits they have and wondered how they get any shots worth using in a court of law. Of course when police take the shots the are taken sometimes judge-mentally by the police. I know because I have looked into working with them and to even begin you have to serve time working in the jail system and get promoted out carrying a bachelor degree to get into the coroners office.

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