Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register ☰
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Harder to Be A Liberal
Page <<first <prev 3 of 3
Jul 22, 2012 13:00:47   #
greymule Loc: Colorado
 
You miss my point entirely. Your money is long gone, it is your children who will be paying the bill for your social security... there was no investment of the money that you put in, that money was spent on programs other than social security, it was just an additional tax used for other purposes, so in a way it is nothing more than another entitlement... the system was designed to be a pension fund, the monies were supposed to be invested and there was to be a fund that your retirement would be paid from... but they spent the money on other programs... there is no fund! What you have is a promise of entitlement, nothing more. You did not do that, I did not do that, our government did. That is just a simple truth.[/quote]



Here is a link that sorts so-called "facts"-

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 13:06:28   #
tramsey Loc: Texas
 
While I was reading this thread something that a great man once told me (my dad) "Don't argue with an idiot, people listening might be able to tell the difference"

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 13:54:39   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
greymule wrote:
You miss my point entirely. Your money is long gone, it is your children who will be paying the bill for your social security... there was no investment of the money that you put in, that money was spent on programs other than social security, it was just an additional tax used for other purposes, so in a way it is nothing more than another entitlement... the system was designed to be a pension fund, the monies were supposed to be invested and there was to be a fund that your retirement would be paid from... but they spent the money on other programs... there is no fund! What you have is a promise of entitlement, nothing more. You did not do that, I did not do that, our government did. That is just a simple truth.
You miss my point entirely. Your money is long go... (show quote)




Here is a link that sorts so-called "facts"-

http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp[/quote]

Here's a link for you and if you consider that the trust fund is nothing more than an accounting line of the federal balance sheet saying that our bankrupted government owes itself money that it does not have that might give you pause to consider that the program is in deeper trouble than the CBO reports it to be in...

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/24943

Reply
 
 
Jul 22, 2012 20:42:46   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
Bob.J wrote:
When did Social Security become a liberal left wing hand out?
I am under the impression it is something you pay into while you work and that is what determines how much you receive when you decide to go on SS.
So isn't it your money?


No! It is not your money. Your money was given to someone else who also had to give to someone else. I retired at 62. Before I turned 65 I had already gotten back what I had payed in and then some. Someone, a lot of someones is paying in to the system so that I can sat on my butt till the day I die. You do not have to even pay into the system to draw a check. You don't have to work a day of your life to draw a check. So, is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 22:12:46   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
We should get off the idea of Social Security as a handout. It was set up when so many people had nothing to retire on and was an excellent idea. With company retirement programs going into bankruptcy, it is still what many will rely on in retirement. One of the problems, however, is that the fund is being used for other purposes which are draining the Trust. While SSI and disability are good programs, and I am not going to find fault with them, they should have been funded separately from the Social Security Trust.

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 22:34:02   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
SteveR wrote:
We should get off the idea of Social Security as a handout. It was set up when so many people had nothing to retire on and was an excellent idea. With company retirement programs going into bankruptcy, it is still what many will rely on in retirement. One of the problems, however, is that the fund is being used for other purposes which are draining the Trust. While SSI and disability are good programs, and I am not going to find fault with them, they should have been funded separately from the Social Security Trust.
We should get off the idea of Social Security as a... (show quote)


I guess that I should make clear that I have no problem with social security, but people should realize that it is the largest line on the federal budget and that it current expenditures for SSI and medicare represent more than 1/2 of the revenue collected by the federal government. When people make the claim that I paid for my social security and therefore it is mine it is important that they understand that the federal government broke that promise years ago and that your SSI and Medicare comes from current revenues and that any attempt to deal with federal debt and deficits will certainly have to effect SSI and Medicare.

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 22:46:35   #
micro Loc: Texas
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
SteveR wrote:
We should get off the idea of Social Security as a handout. It was set up when so many people had nothing to retire on and was an excellent idea. With company retirement programs going into bankruptcy, it is still what many will rely on in retirement. One of the problems, however, is that the fund is being used for other purposes which are draining the Trust. While SSI and disability are good programs, and I am not going to find fault with them, they should have been funded separately from the Social Security Trust.
We should get off the idea of Social Security as a... (show quote)


I respectfully disagree. The SS funds that were borrowed by the Fed, are owed back to the Trust Fund, just like when one purchases Government Bonds. These are obligations that the government can and will make good on.

I guess that I should make clear that I have no problem with social security, but people should realize that it is the largest line on the federal budget and that it current expenditures for SSI and medicare represent more than 1/2 of the revenue collected by the federal government. When people make the claim that I paid for my social security and therefore it is mine it is important that they understand that the federal government broke that promise years ago and that your SSI and Medicare comes from current revenues and that any attempt to deal with federal debt and deficits will certainly have to effect SSI and Medicare.
quote=SteveR We should get off the idea of Social... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jul 22, 2012 22:49:27   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Blurryeyed...SSI is not the Social Security that we get when we're old. It's a special program similar to Disability.

Reply
Jul 22, 2012 23:22:00   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Well what ever Social Security and the related insurances including Medicare amount to over to 1.3 trillion in expenditures annually, the federal government is collecting something like 2.5 trillion in revenues. Throw in medicaid and welfare, defense, and interest on the debt and you are already well into deficit spending.

Here is the social security component alone..


What Were the Components of Trust Funds Outlays in 2011? The following table shows payments, by category, from each trust fund in 2011 (totals may not add due to rounding).

Category (in billions) OASI DI HI SMI
Benefit payments $596.2 $128.9 $252.9 $288.5
Railroad Retirement
financial interchange 4.1 0.5 — —
Administrative
expenses 3.5 2.9 3.8 4.0
Total 603.8 132.3 256.7 292.5

Reply
Jul 23, 2012 00:35:01   #
lost_found
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Well what ever Social Security and the related insurances including Medicare amount to over to 1.3 trillion in expenditures annually, the federal government is collecting something like 2.5 trillion in revenues. Throw in medicaid and welfare, defense, and interest on the debt and you are already well into deficit spending.

Here is the social security component alone..


What Were the Components of Trust Funds Outlays in 2011? The following table shows payments, by category, from each trust fund in 2011 (totals may not add due to rounding).

Category (in billions) OASI DI HI SMI
Benefit payments $596.2 $128.9 $252.9 $288.5
Railroad Retirement
financial interchange 4.1 0.5 — —
Administrative
expenses 3.5 2.9 3.8 4.0
Total 603.8 132.3 256.7 292.5
Well what ever Social Security and the related ins... (show quote)


The money collected for SSI (FICA) has been taken and spent, leaving an IOU of course, since the very first year of the programs creation. Reagan doubled the required contribution percentage in the 80's to preserve the solvency of the program and that money was spent as quick as it was collected as well. You either trust that we will pay ourselves back or we won't. My guess is we get paid before the Chinese do. My problem with the discussion around SSI is the lumping it in as an entitlement. This is not an entitlement program as if you don't pay in you don't get paid later. If there is nothing there 'later' we will have bigger problems to worry about.

Reply
Jul 23, 2012 05:11:24   #
ephraim Imperio
 
tramsey wrote:
While I was reading this thread something that a great man once told me (my dad) "Don't argue with an idiot, people listening might be able to tell the difference"


Correct, tramsey! Some people are just "stuck on stupid"!

Reply
 
 
Jul 23, 2012 13:45:02   #
micro Loc: Texas
 
lost_found wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
Well what ever Social Security and the related insurances including Medicare amount to over to 1.3 trillion in expenditures annually, the federal government is collecting something like 2.5 trillion in revenues. Throw in medicaid and welfare, defense, and interest on the debt and you are already well into deficit spending.

Here is the social security component alone..


What Were the Components of Trust Funds Outlays in 2011? The following table shows payments, by category, from each trust fund in 2011 (totals may not add due to rounding).

Category (in billions) OASI DI HI SMI
Benefit payments $596.2 $128.9 $252.9 $288.5
Railroad Retirement
financial interchange 4.1 0.5 — —
Administrative
expenses 3.5 2.9 3.8 4.0
Total 603.8 132.3 256.7 292.5
Well what ever Social Security and the related ins... (show quote)


The money collected for SSI (FICA) has been taken and spent, leaving an IOU of course, since the very first year of the programs creation. Reagan doubled the required contribution percentage in the 80's to preserve the solvency of the program and that money was spent as quick as it was collected as well. You either trust that we will pay ourselves back or we won't. My guess is we get paid before the Chinese do. My problem with the discussion around SSI is the lumping it in as an entitlement. This is not an entitlement program as if you don't pay in you don't get paid later. If there is nothing there 'later' we will have bigger problems to worry about.
quote=Blurryeyed Well what ever Social Security a... (show quote)


Correct!
And the reason that the SS incresed under Reagan (he raised taxes, oh my!), was to support the large "Baby Boom" population. The way SS works (for thoes who do not know) is that those currently working pay to cover the benefits of the retired. The "baby Boom" generation was so large that the following generation could not possibly (or reasonably) cover payouts. Therefore the "Baby Boomers" paid in extra to cover their parents generation as well as suppliment their own payout.

Reply
Aug 15, 2012 20:57:50   #
ephraim Imperio
 
greymule wrote:
>>Who gave more money to charity, Romney or Obama???<<


The Mormon Church absolutely demands a minimum 10 percent tithe that goes to SLC. So I'm not sure that's charity: supporting year long missions all over the world to convert people to Mormonism.


God admonished his disciples: Give to caesar which is caesar's and to God which is God's. This is the teachings of the Bible.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 3 of 3
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Home | Latest Digest | Back to Top | All Sections
Contact us | Privacy policy | Terms of use | DMCA
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.