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My biggest gripe about DSLR cameras, and Camera Companies
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Mar 3, 2018 11:37:30   #
Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak
 
Or learn about white balance and how to manipulate it to simulate different film types by varying the color temperature. I’m pretty sure you can simulate Kodachrome’s leaning toward the warm reds, Ektachrome’s leaning toward the blues and greens—cooler colors, Fuji’s very saturated color renditions. I think digital cameras open up a host of possibilities for the photographer by offering them any kind of “film” effect, simply be changing the ISO and white balance.

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Mar 3, 2018 11:37:40   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
Plenty of people still shoot film, so don't feel forced to shoot digital.

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 11:38:05   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Adstractist, welcome to the Hog!!!
I knew an old man many years ago...., whined incessantly about why Nikon had not made a small glass plate adaptor to put inside his old film camera so it had the look and feel of his old glass plate rig.
He never did adapt very well, he finally just up and died!!!
Abstractist, do you get my drift???? LoL
SS

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Mar 3, 2018 11:40:36   #
TonyBot
 
I, too, am a "visual learner", and to aid in my remembering things, I have to write them down.

BUT, now I don't have to carry a variety of films with me (and change them in the middle of a 36 exposure roll, losing exposures/dollars)

The "sunny sixteen" rule is still valid - for whatever ISO (ASA?) I choose to be needed at the moment, almost always 400 or below - just like film. I know how to use it, and almost always check my built-in's reading to make sure I believe it - and adjust if necessary (Y'know, "manual").

I used to carry only three lenses - a 24mm, a "nifty fifty", and a 100. They covered 99% of what I needed. Before that, the 120-size TLR I had had only one lens - about equal to a 35's 40mm. On that I don't think I ever changed film mid-roll, especially if I had a 220 in there.

Now, I carry (for my "crop" sensor) a 10-22, a 24-70 (that also, in pinch, can do true macro), and a 70-200 when I think I'll need it. And a couple of those "thingies" that I call "digital film". More versatility. Yes, more weight, but I get more shots/keepers.

I long for the light-weight camera body, compact lenses, and the day I had more hair on my head. (At least now, *that* falls into the 18% category!)

Still have the camera and lenses. Still use the DSLR virtually all the time. Use the film when I want to be "retro" - every now and then. (Sure miss Kodachrome - it was ASA 10 when had my first 35)

(by the way, there are a lot of standalone programs and plug-ins available that do a great job of emulating the "film look")

I miss those days - but only would relive them to take more advantage of the "learning moments". I like *now*, so much better!

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Mar 3, 2018 11:42:53   #
Kozan Loc: Trenton Tennessee
 
Stay with film. You will be much happier!

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 11:46:59   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)


You might find SOME solace in a Fujifilm mirrorless system. They have excellent JPEG simulations of all their best films, built in.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you missed hopping onto the digital freight train back in the late 1970s or early 1980s. It was easy for those of us who caught it early.

Photography is now a universal visual language. But as huge as it is, it is only a small part of a much larger universe of digital convergence technologies. (Photography, audio, video, radio, GPS, computing, telephony...)

It is very difficult to grasp all the concepts you need to integrate, all at once. It’s also expensive, as you need a computer, monitor, monitor calibration kit, software, and maybe a printer, plus training.

I’d probably stick with film.

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 11:51:48   #
Robeng Loc: California
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)


Gripping doesn't do anything but get you more upset. Instead take the time and learn how to use your camera. It's easier than you think, but you have to put an effort into it.

I haven't been shooting as long as you but I made an effort to learn as much as I can about photography. I have won more awards than I can count, been published in magazines, Won two 1st places on UHH and a member of Nikon Profeddional Service. Not bragging, but encouraging you to move forward. Feel free to look at my posting on the hog.
Rob

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Mar 3, 2018 11:55:13   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
abstractist72 wrote:

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.


Well, you can pretty easily set the ISO (ASA) value for most digital cameras, with the advantage that you can do so for any number of frames and then change to a different value if desired. There are also post processing apps that can mimic different types of film.

abstractist72 wrote:
2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.


Unfortunately that isn't really technically feasible and would likely be prohibitively expensive, unless you use something like a Hasselblad, for which I believe both film and digital backs are available. Some people would consider Hasselblads to be prohibitively expensive. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-27/hasselblad-fv-5c-review-15-500-device-turns-vintage-cameras-digital. My wife's main camera was an FM2n, which we still have. She never got on well with a digital point and shoot. She could use it, but never liked to use it, except for her jewelry business photographs. When I got her a DSLR, it really changed things for her since it is much closer to her FM2n than any P&S could ever be. She's enjoying using the DSLR, but still uses the P&S for her online antique jewelry business.

abstractist72 wrote:
3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.


The camera companies are not really responsible for your particular style of learning. There is a plethora of video stuff on you tube, and also community college courses that you could attend where something better suited to your learning needs could be available. However, once you have learned how to use it the feedback from digital cameras far exceeds anything from the film days. You clearly are not stupid, but perhaps experiencing some ignorance of modern technology which can be addressed, even with learning by watching and doing, which most people need to one degree or another. A basic digital photography class could help bridge the gap between your existing film based knowledge and your DSLR capabilities. Perhaps a photography club where some people would mentor you for a while.

abstractist72 wrote:
4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. The ASA is off the wall? Are you letting the camera select the ISO (ASA) values, or are you suggesting that what you set doesn't meet your expectations, or is inaccurate? This could be simple user error that could be easily fixed. I'm not sure what you mean by wrenches or in the camera body. Usually there are some simple menus or buttons/dials that allow for easy adjustment of ISO(ASA) settings from auto to fixed values either on the rear screen or through the viewfinder on the camera body. Perhaps it is a simple thing to help you come to terms with that.

abstractist72 wrote:
5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.


That could be true, but much of it is there already in either the camera presets or by using computer-based post processing. My mother-in-law just turned 90, had a project to do a few years ago and was considering using old physical cut and paste methods to make images for an event. Literally cutting up magazines and so forth. I showed her what could be done, she is now on her second computer, has an inkjet printer, and has learned some basic post-processing tools. I have to help her occasionally, but she's fiercely independent and wants to do it all herself. If she can do it, there's every chance that you can.

Good luck, and don't give up.

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Mar 3, 2018 11:55:59   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
Good reply Chg. I guess he was just blowing off some steam. But you are right. Todays cameras are very sophisticated and can do much more than the old time film cameras. I remember when my father was alive he simply couldn't grasp the concept of voicemail on his cell phone. I must have left 20 over the years and when he passed away I got his phone and saw the little recorder symbol on the top of his phone. All the voicemails were from me and had never been listened to. Some people just don't like "change". I embrace change and try to keep up with the times. But I can imagine the day might come when my mind isn't sharp enough to keep up. It sometimes happens to us the older we get.

CHG_CANON wrote:
Should the car manufactures have left the engine cranks on the front of cars?
Should the internet providers still provide a squawk whenever you connect to a website so it sounds like dial-up?
Should you be forced to visit physical stores to buy your MP3 music?
Should you be forced to open your front door each morning to see if UHH has been delivered yet?
Should a large multinational company design their products to the limited understanding of a single customer?

If you want to shoot film, nothing is stopping you. Buy it. Load it. Shoot it. Develop it. Hope maybe 1 of 36 is anything worth keeping after the $20 investment. You may not be able to buy film at the gas station / everywhere like not too long ago and getting it developed also takes some effort based on where you live. But, high-quality film and places to get it developed and scanned are plenty if you don't do it yourself.

DSLRs have been widely available since 2001. You seem to be coming to the game a bit late with ideas about how they should be designed ... Maybe some training and practice is needed to see the wonders and opportunities they provide.
Should the car manufactures have left the engine c... (show quote)

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Mar 3, 2018 12:06:31   #
Bobspez Loc: Southern NJ, USA
 
Just like with film cameras there's only three settings you need to know with a dslr, iso, shutter speed and aperture. Set your quality level to fine jpg or raw+fine jpg if you want to use raw. You can forget the rest. Sit in your easy chair or on your porch and practice shooting objects in the room or in your yard with these three settings. Experiment with different values and check your results on the screen (no more costs for developing!). By the end of the day you will know what to do to get good shots with the manual settings. When you want to learn to use the flash, do the same thing. Happy shooting.

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Mar 3, 2018 12:10:29   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)

Get a Fuji. Retro design and film simulation. Includes several monochromes + various filters. The one film I truly miss is Kodachrome 25. Best transparency film ever made in my opinion. I can (and do) still shoot both 120 & 35mm. Unfortunately, can’t use my favorite.

Reply
 
 
Mar 3, 2018 12:16:12   #
Shutterbug57
 
Shoot film. You won’t be alone.

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 12:17:26   #
Joe Blow
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)

OK, as another old timer I feel your pain. However, time has moved on and photography has too.

Today our TVs are all flatscreen. We change the channel and sound from our seats; no need to get up. We watch in Hi-Definition instead of that old blurry Std-Def. The colors are more natural and we don't get ghosting. Did I mention that there are more channels available?

Our cars use a fraction the fuel they did "back in the day". Where a car with 50,000 miles used to be old, today it is just broken in. They are more comfortable, far safer, air-conditioned, and far more nimble. Of course, I'm sure there are those who prefer "three on a tree" or that old two speed Glide-a-Matic.

Now with your camera, they too have improved. What was ASA has been standardized as ISO. What was done in a darkroom is now done on a computer. You miss your different brand of film? Fine, you can add the exact same characteristic in any computer photo editor. You don't need a specific roll of film to get that characteristic. And yes, even those kit zooms are sharper than most prime glass from 50 years ago.

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 12:22:31   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)

So upgrade back to film and enjoy photography. (I did!)

Reply
Mar 3, 2018 12:37:14   #
Ched49 Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
RWR wrote:
So upgrade back to film and enjoy photography. (I did!)
Exactly...film is the original raw. It's like driving a stick shift instead of an automatic, You become part of the machinery. The same applies to shooting film, you become part of the photographic process, sometimes the easy way isn't always the best way.

Reply
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