How would you answer this question? (Page 12): Simple: “No reason at all, if you feel the image is not worth the price” Then move on with your life and leave her to do the same. Dave...

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

Simple:

“No reason at all, if you feel the image is not worth the price”

Then move on with your life and leave her to do the same.

Dave

BarneyB

Jaackil wrote:

This was never about copyrights or signed releases... (show quote)

Not to put too fine a point on this, but a commercial purpose is, in part, the sale of the likeness of another person to promote your business. The act of charging money for the likeness does, in fact, promote a business purpose. The amount you charge is irrelevant. The point was that bringing copywrite law into this simple discussion actually complicates the issue and is likely to needlessly aggravate this mom. I like many of the responses to the original post and I think a little clarification for this mom of the costs and trouble the poster went to in order to get these pictures would pay dividends. But maybe not. Thank you for your response. Your mileage may vary.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Jaackil wrote:

“Why should I have to pay for a picture of my own ... (show quote)

I would tell her "you did not take the photo, so it is not yours, If you would like a copy it is $15 for my time, and by the way the photo is still my property".

aellman Loc: Boston MA

Jaackil wrote:

“Why should I have to pay for a picture of my own ... (show quote)

If she doesn't feel she should have to pay for a picture of her kid, does that mean
that she would be willing to pay for a photo of someone else's kid? The whole
concept is BOGUS. Nonetheless, in any service business, you need to be
polite to everyone, regardless of how obnoxious they may be. If you're not,
"Instant Karma's gonna get you." Seriously, burning bridges is always a bad idea.
Negative word-of-mouth spreads around town much more quickly than positive comments.

A possible tactful response (roughly like this): "I understand what you're saying. This is the way
I have chosen run my business. It reflects my wish to provide a high quality creative product at
a very reasonable price. I'm sorry if my philosophy doesn't meet with your approval, but it has
been working well for me for some time. Best wishes, You."

Best wishes,
Alan

aellman Loc: Boston MA

BarneyB wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on this, but a commerc... (show quote)

Barney, >>> "Your mileage may vary" made me laugh out loud. I will add "Void where prohibited by law."

BTW, an important distinction: "copywrite" is actually "copyright," meaning the right to copy. The two are often confused.

Best wishes,
Alan

Photocraig

ToBoldlyGo wrote:

As well as reminding her about the low res version she has for free, you could remind her that it is a professionally shot photo. You could add that you're not in it for profit, but have to charge something for overheads and time. She may not take this on board, at which point you may choose to part ways.

I would also add that "Market Rate" for such a 'produced photo" would be in excess of $100, plus a hefty "Session Fee". You are volunteering your time and effort to support the boys. However, to enable future "Produced shots" you need to charge a modest fee, and also protect your ownership rights. I suspect that she believes she owns thee rights to ANY photo of HER child. No shortage of ignorant people.

C

aellman Loc: Boston MA

Photocraig wrote:

I would also add that "Market Rate" for such a 'produced photo" would be in excess of $100, plus a hefty "Session Fee". You are volunteering your time and effort to support the boys. However, to enable future "Produced shots" you need to charge a modest fee, and also protect your ownership rights. I suspect that she believes she owns thee rights to ANY photo of HER child. No shortage of ignorant people.

C

I'm sure that many people harbor the same misconception. >Alan

sailingthe7seas

I understand, maybe I overstated the solution. Explaining to the mother that by her participation she would helping you cover some of the expenses you incurred and that you are not charging her to make a profit might help.

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

Dikdik wrote:

That may vary with jurisdiction... you might check locally

Dik

Federal law superceeds local and state laws that fact does not vary by location.

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

BarneyB wrote:

Not to put too fine a point on this, but a commerc... (show quote)

I think you are really over thinking this. As you say if the sale is to promote your business the key word would be promote them yes it falls under comercial however the sale alone does not constitute comercial in the eyes of the law regarding the sale of photographs. If I take a picture of you in a public place and sell it to a newspaper that is not considered comercial as defined by the DOJ. I am selling my art or my property which I have full legal right to do. However if I sell that same photo to the company that made the hat you are wearing in the picture and they want to use it in an advertisement that is commercial. If I were to use that image to promote my business that would be considered comercial and your permission would be required. You can twist it anyway you want but I can assure you I know for a fact I do not need a release for any of the images we are discussing.

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

pstar wrote:

In your post you say you have done this many years. that being said all the players parents are aware of what you do and don't charge for . As for all this talk about model release some how all players were invited to the photo shoot that parents delivered there kids too sounds like parental consent to me . My reply would be to give you copies of your son's photo's would be unfair to all that have paid seeing how it's clear what i give as a gift and what i charge for to cover my expenses

Again too many people are over thinking this. It has nothing to do with consent. As I stated several times these are high school seniors they drove themselves to the rink. So they delivered themselves not their parents. Consent is not at issue at all.

Stephan G

Jaackil wrote:

Federal law superceeds local and state laws that fact does not vary by location.

We are in a global discussion here. Hence the variances arise.

As to Federal etc., this is for the most part for the USA. That being said, the relationship is not written in stone. This especially requires a good lawyer locally to explain the ramifications of contractual agreements, copyrights notwithstanding. It behooves all of us to keep abreast with the changes in laws at all levels. Also, the changes in application of the laws.

In Paris, France, any one can photograph the Eiffel Tower. But they cannot photograph it once the lights come on. The lights are copyrighted and protected as such.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2831331/Tourists-warned-breaking-law-taking-photos-Eiffel-Tower-night-sharing-images-Facebook-ILLEGAL.html

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

Stephan G wrote:

We are in a global discussion here. Hence the var... (show quote)

I stated earlier this is in the USA but again this is not about consent!

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

Jaackil wrote:

“Why should I have to pay for a picture of my own ... (show quote)

Answer her politely " you can take all the free pictures you want, as long as you take them yourself". Or you could say--why did you have to pay the doctor for delivering your own child.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Jaackil wrote:

Again too many people are over thinking this. It has nothing to do with consent. As I stated several times these are high school seniors they drove themselves to the rink. So they delivered themselves not their parents. Consent is not at issue at all.

If it is a public place, no consent is needed from anyone. Schools sometimes do however require parental consent for photos taken at the school.