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Cold weather question
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Dec 11, 2016 09:26:30   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
Apaflo wrote:
In fact windchill absolutely is a factor!

Windchill is basically a measure of how fast a warm object will cool to ambient temperature, or conversely how much heat has to be applied to prevent that. For a camera the operative concern is how fast the battery in the camera will cool until it can no longer provide enough charge to operate the camera.

If the temperature is 15F degrees with no wind the batteries will last for some given time. If the wind is blowing 15 MPH you can rest assured the amount of time you have before the camera is too cold to work is much shorter (because the Windchill Factor is -11F degrees). Even though it is 15F the effect is going to be something closer to how short it would be if the actual temperature were below zero.
In fact windchill absolutely is a factor! br br W... (show quote)


You're right, wind will drain the heat from an object quicker but it will not cause the temperature of the object to go below ambient. A battery inside a camera is not subject to windchill, although the shell of the camera is and it will cool quicker, cooling the internals quicker. Just the same, a camera is not a real high mass item. It's going to cool pretty quickly regardless of the wind.

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Dec 11, 2016 09:43:09   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
LFingar wrote:
You're right, wind will drain the heat from an object quicker but it will not cause the temperature of the object to go below ambient. A battery inside a camera is not subject to windchill, although the shell of the camera is and it will cool quicker, cooling the internals quicker. Just the same, a camera is not a real high mass item. It's going to cool pretty quickly regardless of the wind.

It is going to cool quicker if the WCF is lower. Ambient temperature is rarely significant either! The battery ceases to work well before it gets as cold as ambient temperature. All that counts is how fast the battery cools. (The idea that the battery is not actually affected by windchill because it is inside the camera is silly word games! You are affected, even though wrapped in a parka.)

In typical cold weather operation WCF is very important. Batteries and/or cameras are typically moved between a warm place inside a coat, where heat from your body warms it up, to an outside location for actual use. The timing for how long the inside/outside intervals have to be depends very much on windchill as opposed to just ambient temperature. Time the switch wrong, and you'll miss the important shots...

This entire topic of how windchill affects inanimate objects is commonly misunderstood. Windchill is the right way to determine the heat requirements for a building, not ambient temperature. People seem to find that hard to grasp because of the way windchill is defined.

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Dec 11, 2016 09:45:13   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Apaflo wrote:
... I live in the coldest place in the US...

It colder at 20,000 feet on top of Denali (Mount McKinley) but nobody lives there. Barrow is at sea level, for now.

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Dec 11, 2016 10:15:00   #
Keldon Loc: Yukon, B.C.
 
I lived in the Yukon for 26 years and never once had any issue with my cameras due to the intense cold, nor did I take any precautions with them. Batteries weakened and film snapped and later with Digital I had display fade but nothing permanent. Go out in the "cold" and take all the photos you want.

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Dec 11, 2016 10:18:04   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
From my experience using cameras in very cold weather:
Camera's operations become sluggish and then cease to function. Much like trying to use the camera on a depleted battery. Once the camera warms up, it works again. I've never experienced permanent camera damage due to cold weather. Extreme heat is I think far more dangerous!

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Dec 11, 2016 10:40:02   #
MT Shooter Loc: Montana
 
markie1425 wrote:
I searched UHH unsuccessfully for "freeze" or "freezing" before posting this question.

I consider myself to be a street photographer and never leave home without a camera. Camera portability and image quality are most important to me. In the days of film, I had multiple bodies and lenses and even a Rolleiflex, but moved past that decades ago. My largest body is the T2i and I use that only to photograph high school reunions. Otherwise, my daily carries are either the Canon S95 and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100.

Although I'm very cavalier about using medicines or food way beyond their expiration dates (unless they fail the nose test), I'm reluctant to carry a camera when the mercury tumbles below the manufacturers' recommendations about minimum ambient usage temperatures. I don't know what damage or failure-to-operate situations would/could happen and whether any resulting damage might be permanent.

I've considered buying a "tough" camera that might be useful down to 14°F, but think that those pictures might be less than satisfactory. Furthermore, it gets colder than 14°F in Philadelphia, although some of you might laugh at such relatively mild conditions.

So, my question is how do others take pictures in frigid conditions and are my fears of camera damage valid?

Thank you.
--
I searched UHH unsuccessfully for "freeze&quo... (show quote)


Click my website like below, and scroll to the bottom of the page for proof that cameras work well in the cold (-42). Batteries are an entirely different issue though, keep plenty of warm spares handy.

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Dec 11, 2016 10:48:05   #
hpucker99 Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
markie1425 wrote:
I searched UHH unsuccessfully for "freeze" or "freezing" before posting this question.


So, my question is how do others take pictures in frigid conditions and are my fears of camera damage valid?

Thank you.
--


I have set my Canon 60D outside to shoot night time panoramas without problems. The first thing to fail is the battery, it loses its capacity more quickly in cold temperatures. I found an external battery that has sufficient capacity that even in cold weather, it runs all night. The other two problems with shooting in cold temperatures is the lens frost up and you might reach a temperature where the shutter malfunctions. You can apply a coating to the lens to minimize frost buildup. There is nothing you can do for the camera stopping, just bring it inside to warm up. There have many discussions on the proper procedure for bringing a camera inside, review them first. Basically you brush off the excess frost and snow and put the camera in a sealable plastic ziplock or equivalent, press out out the excess air and bring inside.

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Dec 11, 2016 11:20:46   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
LFingar wrote:
You have 5 yrs on me. Winter has less and less appeal to me every year! Someplace with sand and Pina Coladas is more to my liking!


I'm with you. At 70, if all my children and grandchildren weren't just down the street, I'd be living in Florida or further south. Spent Christmas in Winter Park one year, and walking downtown on Christmas Day at 70+ degrees was nice! Thin blood and less body fat as you get older I suppose...

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Dec 11, 2016 11:49:07   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
markie1425 wrote:
I searched UHH unsuccessfully for "freeze" or "freezing" before posting this question.

I consider myself to be a street photographer and never leave home without a camera. Camera portability and image quality are most important to me. In the days of film, I had multiple bodies and lenses and even a Rolleiflex, but moved past that decades ago. My largest body is the T2i and I use that only to photograph high school reunions. Otherwise, my daily carries are either the Canon S95 and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX100.

Although I'm very cavalier about using medicines or food way beyond their expiration dates (unless they fail the nose test), I'm reluctant to carry a camera when the mercury tumbles below the manufacturers' recommendations about minimum ambient usage temperatures. I don't know what damage or failure-to-operate situations would/could happen and whether any resulting damage might be permanent.

I've considered buying a "tough" camera that might be useful down to 14°F, but think that those pictures might be less than satisfactory. Furthermore, it gets colder than 14°F in Philadelphia, although some of you might laugh at such relatively mild conditions.

So, my question is how do others take pictures in frigid conditions and are my fears of camera damage valid?

Thank you.
--
I searched UHH unsuccessfully for "freeze&quo... (show quote)


This may or may not answer your question - but the images of a nice camera covered in frost are worth a look:

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/20/frozen-camera-what-a-dslr-looks-like-when-shooting-in-a-25c-environment/

I've used my D800, D300S, D700, D3S at temps around -5 degF, along with a 600mmF4, 100-300mmF4, and an old 80-200 F2.8 for hours at at time without any issues. Just bring lots of batteries.

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Dec 11, 2016 11:52:23   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Gene51 wrote:
This may or may not answer your question - but the images of a nice camera covered in frost are worth a look:

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/20/frozen-camera-what-a-dslr-looks-like-when-shooting-in-a-25c-environment/

I've used my D800, D300S, D700, D3S at temps around -5 degF, along with a 600mmF4, 100-300mmF4, and an old 80-200 F2.8 for hours at at time without any issues. Just bring lots of batteries.

Those cameras could use a block heater.

Reply
Dec 11, 2016 12:11:36   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Apaflo wrote:
It is going to cool quicker if the WCF is lower. Ambient temperature is rarely significant either! The battery ceases to work well before it gets as cold as ambient temperature. All that counts is how fast the battery cools. (The idea that the battery is not actually affected by windchill because it is inside the camera is silly word games! You are affected, even though wrapped in a parka.)



I think the confusion over the years is because many reporting the weather made it sound like the wind chill actually lowered the temperature. Today they usually refer to the "feels like" temperature. Thirty degrees on a windy day may feel like twenty, but it is still thirty.

How quickly a warm, inanimate object drops to the ambient temperature can, I believe, be affected by wind.

--

Reply
 
 
Dec 11, 2016 12:22:54   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Bill_de wrote:
I think the confusion over the years is because many reporting the weather made it sound like the wind chill actually lowered the temperature. Today they usually refer to the "feels like" temperature. Thirty degrees on a windy day may feel like twenty, but it is still thirty.

How quickly a warm, inanimate object drops to the ambient temperature can, I believe, be affected by wind.

--

And its thermal coefficient of resistance or heat transfer coefficient.

Reply
Dec 11, 2016 12:49:38   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
Apaflo wrote:
It is going to cool quicker if the WCF is lower. Ambient temperature is rarely significant either! The battery ceases to work well before it gets as cold as ambient temperature. All that counts is how fast the battery cools. (The idea that the battery is not actually affected by windchill because it is inside the camera is silly word games! You are affected, even though wrapped in a parka.)

In typical cold weather operation WCF is very important. Batteries and/or cameras are typically moved between a warm place inside a coat, where heat from your body warms it up, to an outside location for actual use. The timing for how long the inside/outside intervals have to be depends very much on windchill as opposed to just ambient temperature. Time the switch wrong, and you'll miss the important shots...

This entire topic of how windchill affects inanimate objects is commonly misunderstood. Windchill is the right way to determine the heat requirements for a building, not ambient temperature. People seem to find that hard to grasp because of the way windchill is defined.
It is going to cool quicker if the WCF is lower. ... (show quote)


Didn't say the battery isn't affected by windchill. I said it is not subject to windchill. A minor distinction but still a fact when it is in the camera. I did state that the camera and it's internals will cool quicker when subject to windchill. Essentially the same thing you are saying. Ambient temperature is very significant, BTW, and you certainly know that. WCF is based on wind speed and ambient temp., not just wind speed. Would you prefer to stand in a 20 mph wind in 20 degree temps or in minus 30 degree temps? Which do you think will affect your camera quicker?

Reply
Dec 11, 2016 13:18:23   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
LFingar wrote:
Didn't say the battery isn't affected by windchill. I said it is not subject to windchill. A minor distinction but still a fact when it is in the camera. I did state that the camera and it's internals will cool quicker when subject to windchill. Essentially the same thing you are saying. Ambient temperature is very significant, BTW, and you certainly know that. WCF is based on wind speed and ambient temp., not just wind speed. Would you prefer to stand in a 20 mph wind in 20 degree temps or in minus 30 degree temps? Which do you think will affect your camera quicker?
Didn't say the battery isn't affected by windchill... (show quote)

Silly word games. The battery is affected and is therefore "subject" to windchill.

Nobody is saying ambient temperature is not part of calculating WCF. Have you ever seen how it actually is calculated? I wrote a program years ago, just after NOAA switched from Wind Chill Index to the current Wind Chill Factor, that does exactly that.

Keep in mind that for most people wind speed and WCF are of slight interest; but where I live it is significant all year round on a daily basis. (True that most of us sort of ignore WCF because temperature and wind speed actual effects don't translate well to WCF. It's mostly useful to tell the tourists or talk about on the Internet.)

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Dec 11, 2016 15:12:26   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
Apaflo wrote:
Silly word games. The battery is affected and is therefore "subject" to windchill.

Nobody is saying ambient temperature is not part of calculating WCF. Have you ever seen how it actually is calculated? I wrote a program years ago, just after NOAA switched from Wind Chill Index to the current Wind Chill Factor, that does exactly that.

Keep in mind that for most people wind speed and WCF are of slight interest; but where I live it is significant all year round on a daily basis. (True that most of us sort of ignore WCF because temperature and wind speed actual effects don't translate well to WCF. It's mostly useful to tell the tourists or talk about on the Internet.)
Silly word games. The battery is affected and is ... (show quote)


Coulda swore that you stated that "Ambient temperature is rarely significant". Guess I was mistaken. Regardless, we are both saying essentially the same thing. Stand in the wind and the rate of heat loss will be affected by the WCF. End of story.

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