selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Exactly! Once you mention that they a bullet holes we want to know more. Where? Old or new? Was there a crime or a political conflict? It really matters.

They are no longer impersonal artifacts or simple irregularities in the surface.

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

I prefer this one over the first, but appreciated all of them. Thanks Mr. Hill.

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

Not to me, it doesn't. I am not out to make a political statement - just an observation. You are free to make of them what you will. If you need to be informed about the meaning of a photograph then you will have to look elsewhere.

I had entertained the thought in Version 3. I said more there than I should have said - given the beliefs ascribed to in my personal work.

I got exactly what I was looking for from this posting. A comparative analysis of the strength of the work and suggestions on how to improve the overall effect of the photograph in question. For that I am grateful. Those comments led me to believe that my colour work, in this instance, was substandard. I then turned to what I know best - B?W. I feel it to be a stronger statement of my original perception. There are still faults that need correcting. They will have to wait for another day. I may have overstayed my welcome already by posting three different versions of the same wall.

Further, in the spirit of artistic license, I will call it any thing I deem appropriate. No one has to agree with me.

I would have preferred not to get into this subject of titles but two of you seem to want to discuss it. I do believe there is a thread elsewhere in this forum relating to that question.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Having personally experienced both manifestations of bullet holes in my lifetime, it makes a difference to me. I grew up in Cuba and lived for a long time in Miami so the distinction is not trivial.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

To the 'Almighty photographer who feels threatened by a simple question':

The Ws allow to understand what you are trying to achieve and as such permit an input onto your work as you put it 'under your consideration'.

Your answer would have given a slight comprehension of what you saw.

Now, quite honestly I find your work 'garish*' and your attitude deplorable. I did not answer until now because I tried to respect your 'just because'. Since that very silence seems to be a problem the entire message offered now is my answer to you. This takes into account the other posts you made.

To come out and say 'It is artistry because I say so' makes you (sound/feel) like all the incompetent artists who feel ignored, pushed aside. In the end it diminishes you and likely kills whatever messages you are trying to pass.

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* Includes images in your blog.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

There are bullet holes in walls all over the world, sadly. Asking which bullets, fired by whom, and in which conflict, suggests that it is rare. It is not. What is the backstory? Simply this: we live in the most insane and murderous era in human existence, as symbolized by bullet holes in walls everywhere.

How about the bricks? Where were they made? When? Why was the wall built? Who built it? None of that is interesting, because walls and bricks are common. So are bullet holes.

Mike

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

You don't have to but I am dense and wondering if you could elaborate on this statement so I might get a better understanding of what it means.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Funny.

I lived in a old monastery near Madrid. walls on the South side were pocked with bullet hole. There was a history behind it. Some were due to the battle that took place around the buildings. One wall was particularly damaged in four specific area: Folks were gunned down there, by firing squads.

Taking a picture of the walls would have implied telling the story as the holes alone would means strictly nothing, as they do in this particular image unless we know what was going on and why.

That in turn may explain the choices made when capturing the scene and post processing it.

I once took a picture of a wall in Philly. It was blue. On it there was a list of name, a year and a number. The writing was in white or in black, no defined pastern. I had to ask what it meant to a local.

The answer?

These are folks that had been shot in the few blocks around. The year was when shot, the number was their age. If I recall correctly the youngest was a few months old and the oldest about eighty.

Taking a picture of that wall and posting it w/o saying what is behind would have made as much sense as this capture.

As to shooting being so 'common' and so banal that no one needs to know... How about the victims and their families? Do bricks have families?

About the 'big bullet*' stuck onto a wall in Strasbourg, France, just across the cathedral? What is the story there if you just take a picture of it and post it 'just because'?

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* It is an in-exploded shell from WWII. It is defused now I would think! :mrgreen:

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

There is a different emotional content implied by the bullet holes depending on how they got there.

Were people killed there? Was there a battle? An execution? Was someone simply firing at the wall to scare people? Was is a firing range where nobody got hurt? The result of an over-exuberant party?

It can makes a difference in how we feel about the image. Bullets are not merely a means of self expression or an abstract source of art.

If you take an image and make a point of the content, you owe it to the viewer to learn something about it before leaving. Not knowing implies not caring.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

I like them both rather equally, Jim. They are interesting details from typical urban decay.

I don't need to know the story behind the bullet holes, any more than I need to know how the subject of a street portrait became a street busker, or worse, became homeless.

The proliferation of bullet holes through our urban landscape speaks for itself. There are countless tragedies, and their victims are often nameless and faceless. In my city (one of the top 10 most dangerous in the US), bullet holes and gang graffiti are everywhere, and no one knows their provenance. I never knew where the bullet holes in my own car came from, while it was parked in a public school lot. We never knew the why's and wherefores of fresh bullet holes that riddled some of our schools and were discovered usually on Monday mornings. I have worked with so many troubled children over the years who were caught in this culture of poverty and violence, that I know almost every young man featured on the local news as either the shooter or the victim, and probably would know others if more than a small percentage of the crimes were ever solved.

In one sense, the lack of information IS the story as I understand it.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

We did not initially know anything about where the image was captured - U.S, Europe, Asia, Latin America.

We can gather from subsequent post that is in or near Springfield so that rules out a lot of conjecture.

Fortunately, where I live now, urban decay is merely decay - crumbling buildings and waterfronts without bullet holes and drug violence.

Uuglypher Loc: South Dakota (East River)

sorry to be late to this party, but I do, very much, like the rugged, worn wall with its patchwork of salvage coatings...the many russets, umbers, grays, and and local complementary blue/aqua combined with the variety of textures seem, expectedly, to have attracted the eye of jhill!


Bullets are made for a single purpose. Numerous bullet holes pox-scarring any urban surface impart a dread impact to the image with an emotional effect at
east as strong as their obvviou impact on the wall. Were the targets she
tered behind the wall? Were they in front of it...with no chance of further retreat?

there is no pleasant story to be told...just a variety of unescapably woeful, dreadful ones.
this is an incredibly strong and engaging image, Jim, which the eye leaves with reluctance...yet with relief.

Dave
thank you for posting it.

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

Thanks

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

Thanks Dave.

There have been some who want to know the story of the wall. They fail to understand that the photograph, any photograph, is a symbol of a thing or event. Symbols in the universal sense. Failure to realize that the symbol is NOT the thing, or event, is problematic with some.

In my experience I have found Intelligence is no mark of artistic merit. The one overriding principle of fine art photography is a personal realization that a considered form, on a higher plain, needs to be universal. To ascribe an interpretive title and/or story as to the meaning of any work of art would be to lesson the universality of such a work. Yet, many do just that. I am reminded of the work of Nick Ut and Napalm Girl. Or, Eddie Adams and the summary execution of a suspected VC. These were a different kind of photography. Real in time events. No description was needed but much was given in both photographs. Still, these photographs are only symbols - not the event itself. My photograph is not a real time event. It's a symbol of past events and as such is open to interpretation by any who view it. All I want from the forum is confirmation that it is good or bad photography. So far I have received some very helpful ideas from other photographers. Yours included.

Cindy Sherman, among copious other photographers, simply uses the term: "Untitled" for a lot of her wonderful photographs. That could have been the case for "Bullets" but no one would have determined what those numerous pock marks on the wall represent. They are symbols, and only symbols, of events which have occurred across the planet in many places and times. That I determined they are bullet holes is my prerogative.

Photography is not sacred. It is open to any and all who wish to participate. No prerequisites required. No rules need be ascribed to which determine the course of work. To say that a photograph with bullet holes must have a story is as asinine a belief as exists. Probably utterances of someone with an ax to grind. Such comments only fuel my fire.

I thank you, Dave, for your very intricate and lovely assessment of the photograph. Really appreciate your insight into all photographs - not just mine.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

The photo stands on its own as an image. Nice colors and textures. I don't think it is over-saturated since it might look that way wet.

It's just that the title implied that there was a story to be told so some of us were curious.

I suggest a more mundane interpretation for the holes. Many of them line up nicely, either vertically or horizontally, regularly spaced. They may not be bullet holes at all, merely nail holes left behind from furring strips or other construction material nailed to the wall.

If you can accept that explanation and in the absence of any actual lead embedded in any of the holes, it is possible that none of the holes were from bullets. It may just be a case of old porous plaster.

But a couple of holes look suspicious. Next time you go there you might want to take a closer look.

On the other hand, Pock Marked Wall would probably not be a very catchy title.