moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment

Asked and answered, but for the record:
They're not Christian if they're not following Christ's commands. Killing innocents is not following Christ's commands, no matter whose name they claim to be doing it in.

We are allowed to defend ourselves. Big difference.

Huey Driver Loc: Texas

My understanding is there is no clear reference in the Bible to the actual date when Jesus was born. Christmas is just the date we Christians have traditionally celebrated his birth. If anyone thinks I'm wrong I would appreciate hearing your views.

Duggy

I think you have the True Christians, confused with the religious folk, like those who killed Jesus

cesarakg Loc: Candelaria - Brazil

Isn't this the "no true scotsman" fallacy?

1. No christians kills people.

2. Christians in other times killed pagans and heretics.

3. Yes, but no true christians do this.

The part about buying a sword is not a consensus even between scholars. I think Jesus didn't wanted to be taken literally.

38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

I think he was disgusted by the sight of the weapons, as he not used it for self-defense:

49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.

See? No self-defense allowed. Just my 2 cents...

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

And you read all that into the professors tweet?

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

SO, WHEN WAS JESUS BORN?

Probably between early April and June 17th, 2 BC.



WOW.. what was that.... 8000 words or so to come to an unknown conclusion of non fact... Hummmmmmmmmm

Once again,,, the average Christian has absolutely no concern about the Actual Date,,,because we realize that we will more than likely NEVER know when it is.. So we just celebrate it on the 25th of Dec...

Mike

Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak

Unfortunately one can't believe most of what the news media says. The purpose of the media is to sell stories and build numbers in order to retain their existence. Honesty in reporting has a very small place in today's news.

As to what Christians do, or don't do, as opposed to others, let me say this: Yes, Christians do kill people, sometimes for a good reason (self-defense) or a not good reason--out and our murder, or simply by accident, as in a car crash, for example.

What occurred in the Medieval times and during the Inquisition, many atrocities were committed, not by Christians, but by those who felt they were acting in the best interests of the Catholic Church which, at the time, ruled most countries. I don't mean to denigrate the Catholic Church, but that is the way it was. It wasn't until the Reformation, started by Martin Luther that there was a move away from the Catholic Church by some, and so the so-called Protestant denominations and churches came into being. Don't confuse Christians with religion and religiosity. Going to church doesn't make one a Christian anymore than attending the movies makes one a movie actor.

So what does Jesus have to do with all of this? His message was plain and simple, as it merely called for the individual to form a personal relationship with God, through Him. And to pave the way to salvation He gave up his own life so that we don't have to. It remains a personal choice.

It also amazes me that people decry the Bible as a collection of myths and the figures mentioned in the Bible as fictional characters, when there is historical documentation regarding the Bible, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and others, which are the foundation for validating the Bible as true. Furthermore, it has been stated that people such as Josephus couldn't have had all the "facts" in place because Jesus died before he was born. I rather imagine that, being the scholar that Josephus was, he went about gathering his fact carefully before writing them down to become permanent. And what about the four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Those four men knew Jesus personally, so I'd guess they did have their facts in order. It doesn't matter that none of them wrote their books until a few years after Jesus' death and resurrection. It remains that they were eye witnesses and felt it necessary to communicate to others what they had seen and experienced.

So it amazes me that people of today can write opinion and for some reason it's regarded as fact, when, in fact, their information is based on writings hundreds or thousands of years old! I fail to see how that can be any more relevant than documents written at the time the events occurred.

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

Well lets see... is that sarcasm or a actual comment from the deepest depths of your heart?

The comment you were referring to there was a basic request for further information... was it not?

Exactly why do you thing the OP was posted... was it to bring enlightenment to the Hog... or might it have been to stir up an argument...... which would you think?

Mike

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

Read the Documents penned by Josephus........
Josephus
Historian
Titus Flavius Josephus, born Joseph ben Matityahu, was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar, historian and hagiographer, who was born in Jerusalem—then part of Roman Judea—to a father of priestly descent and a mother who claimed royal ancestry.

Josephus' writings cover a number of figures familiar to Bible readers. He discusses John the Baptist, James the brother of Jesus, Pontius Pilate, the Sadducees, the Sanhedrin, the High Priests, and the Pharisees. As for Jesus, there are two references to him in Antiquities. I will recount them in the order in which they appear.

http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm
First, in a section in Book 18 dealing with various actions of Pilate, the extant texts refer to Jesus and his ministry. This passage is known as the Testimonium Flavianum referred to hereafter as the "TF".

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.
Jewish Antiquities 18.3.3

mike

Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak

Based on what you say here, then the OP is trolling.

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

The Use of 12/25 as the Day to celebrate the Birth of Christ is not a belief, it was/is a choice to set aside a special Day....period...

Christians do have Beliefs but the Date we Celebrate the Birth of Christ is not one of those..

Mike

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

I didn't read the article.. but when I first posted I said (more or less) the OP was put there with the provocative title for the exact reason that you commented here, and I commented here...

A catalyst to enable the Christian Bashers to Bash and the Christians to retaliate.... and strangely enough it works every time..

Mike

cesarakg Loc: Candelaria - Brazil

About Weather Change/Global Warming? It's not what the media says, but what is in the conclusions of the studies.



As far as I know, protestants and catholics killed one another. And there's no central authority that gives people badges of "true christian" so self-declaration is enough, don't you think?

About the Dead Sea Scrolls, they don't serve as evidence that Bible is true, but that the Old Testament is the authentic. Truth and Autenthicity are different things.

About the gospels, what evidence we have that they are true? They may be written by eye-witness, but this don't mean it's the truth. What about the other gospels that were suppressed and burned, because they contradict some bizantine emperor? We have three versions of the facts, not the facts.

Most of the christianity was created by a man that never saw Jesus Christ alive, and that originally was an enemy of christianity: Paul. Paul, the homophobic. Paul, the misoginist. Paul, the intolerant.

71shvel Loc: north texas

WOW! pretty interesting how one little thread can escalate into a 7 page thread and all of it because someone had a birthday. Mr. Newton still has about 1600 years to go before changing the world as long as Jesus has. Most people still us the term BC or AD to reference years. Interesting.

Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania

I worked as a research scientist for a well known high tech company. We often worked on government contracts. When we understood the answer the government wanted, we would find a way to twist the data to confirm what they already wanted to believe, otherwise they would not renew the contract. Yes, biased bad science is very much like religion.

Heck, If Al Gore called me up today and agreed to pay me some big bucks to prove man made global warming, I would take his money and send a report confirming his belief. It's all about faith. You have faith that the scientists are objective and telling you the truth. Nobody would lie just to make money.