The Bible as Source of Truth
Mar 14, 2013 17:44:08 #
PNagy wrote:
Is the Bible a legitimate source for faith, morals, history, science, reason?
Here are some facts about the Bible....
Mar 14, 2013 17:58:54 #
Rix...Don't forget to add that Wallace says that no doctrine of Scripture is affected by the few scribal additions evident in the KJV.
Do you understand why no two manuscripts, that were all copied by hand, are alike? There are a number of reasons, and that is where textual criticism comes in, to determine which variants point to the original texts.
Do you understand why no two manuscripts, that were all copied by hand, are alike? There are a number of reasons, and that is where textual criticism comes in, to determine which variants point to the original texts.
Mar 14, 2013 18:06:25 #
Mar 14, 2013 18:19:54 #
RixPix wrote:
Here are some facts about the Bible....
PNagy wrote:
Is the Bible a legitimate source for faith, morals, history, science, reason?
Here are some facts about the Bible....
Rix...
Well..that's a great chart but it doesn't even begin to tell the actual story. It actually should have been titled "Distorted facts about one English Translation of the biblical manuscripts" lol...
If you are equating an English translation with "the bible", I already know you don't know jack crap about the subject.
Luckily, I've been a student of the Textual History and Transmission of the bible for quite a few years...I'm pretty well versed on it. I've heard the counter arguments, I've studied Wallace's stuff, I've studied Ehrman's stuff, White's stuff.
Charts like these don't mean jack crap (to be blunt)...they use insinuation and "left out facts" to try and create hype where none exists.
Anytime you'd like to have a rational, calm conversation on the history and textual transmission of the bible..I'm all ears and I'd enjoy that. I've got the texts on my laptop and am familiar with much of it.
However..I'm not interested in an internet "cut and paste and run" sort of conversation...
Mar 14, 2013 18:24:25 #
SteveR wrote:
Rix...Don't forget to add that Wallace says that no doctrine of Scripture is affected by the few scribal additions evident in the KJV.
Do you understand why no two manuscripts, that were all copied by hand, are alike? There are a number of reasons, and that is where textual criticism comes in, to determine which variants point to the original texts.
Do you understand why no two manuscripts, that were all copied by hand, are alike? There are a number of reasons, and that is where textual criticism comes in, to determine which variants point to the original texts.
It is a very nice little story but it is just a story. A story that men have perverted to their own ends. Such is the state of your religion a perversion of a myth that became a legend that became a reason to kill. My how far Christians have come from the humble concept that led to that myth.
Mar 14, 2013 18:25:50 #
rpavich wrote:
And by that standard of proof, no book of history can be trusted...example: nobody is alive that knew ol Abe Lincoln, or George Washington, we cannot verify if anything that they wrote was either the truth or even written by them...basically anything we think we know is non-proven hearsay if we weren't there to witness it.
donrent wrote:
NO! The Bible is based on beliefs and non-proven heresay, which means non-factual...
And by that standard of proof, no book of history can be trusted...example: nobody is alive that knew ol Abe Lincoln, or George Washington, we cannot verify if anything that they wrote was either the truth or even written by them...basically anything we think we know is non-proven hearsay if we weren't there to witness it.
That is a new standard of proof; nothing is accepted unless we personally witnessed it. Where does this prevail, besides in your mind?
Mar 14, 2013 18:27:30 #
"Well..what amazes me is that people can believe that there is no God... "
What proof of God have you compiled?
What proof of God have you compiled?
Mar 14, 2013 18:30:28 #
rpavich wrote:
quote=RixPix quote=PNagy Is the Bible a legitima... (show quote)
Amazing how you appear to think you refuted Rix, when in fact you just stated a contradiction to his conclusions without explaining why you are contradicting.
Mar 14, 2013 18:36:55 #
RixPix wrote:
It is a very nice little story but it is just a story. A story that men have perverted to their own ends. Such is the state of your religion a perversion of a myth that became a legend that became a reason to kill. My how far Christians have come from the humble concept that led to that myth.
It is a very nice little story but it is just a story. A story that men have perverted to their own ends. Such is the state of your religion a perversion of a myth that became a legend that became a reason to kill. My how far Christians have come from the humble concept that led to that myth.
I'm guessing that this is about what we can expect? Not a real familiarity with what Dan Wallace has said, nor a meaningful exchange of ideas...but only ad hom's masquaderading as an argument?
I guess nothing changes, I think this is the way it went last time too. :(
Mar 14, 2013 18:37:33 #
RixPix wrote:
quote=SteveR Rix...Don't forget to add that Walla... (show quote)
How far have they come? I hope some came a long way. I say that with sobering reflection, as I have just lost my campaign to named Pope Peter II, III, and IV. However, some Christians have not progressed past the murderous Thirty Years War, which Killed a million European Catholics and protestants at a time when the continental population was but a small fraction what it is today. George W. Bush, for example, had a talk with God (or Jesus) before destroying Iraq and killing probably a million infidels and heretics.
One of the crackpot right wing UHH-ers recently testified that he had a talk with God, too. Who knows what he will do... perhaps, instead of a massive genocide, only a routine mass murder, a la going postal, or educational. We can only hope he converts to a less sanguinary faith before going off.
Mar 14, 2013 18:40:47 #
PNagy wrote:
quote=rpavich quote=RixPix quote=PNagy Is the B... (show quote)
Well, I'm ready to discuss any of these issues in depth with either of you if you want...but like I said...no internet cut and paste bombs...if you understand the issues surrounding the textual history of the bible...then fine...we can have a discussion...but if you just want to cut and paste meaningless crap like this..then I can't take it seriously.
Example: Are you personally familar with the "how many mistakes" argument that's presented in this chart? (No manuscripts agree...etc")
Do you know how many variants there are?
Do you know what the variants are comprised of?
Do you know how the New Testament manuscripts compare to other ancient documents (in this regard) that you'd not bat an eyelash at?
If you are familar with things like that...I'm eager to discuss it.
Mar 14, 2013 18:46:19 #
PNagy wrote:
quote=RixPix quote=SteveR Rix...Don't forget to ... (show quote)
Ahh...the non argument of the Anti-theist.
So I guess we stay at the point where you aren't actually speaking of the truth or falsity of the claims of Christianity but that you don't like certain people who claim to be Christian.
Join the club...I don't like lots of people... :)
Mar 14, 2013 18:56:54 #
"It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand."
Mark Twain
If you want to know why Mark Twain made this statement take a look at the Skeptics Annotated Bible.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Mark Twain
If you want to know why Mark Twain made this statement take a look at the Skeptics Annotated Bible.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
PNagy wrote:
Is the Bible a legitimate source for faith, morals, history, science, reason?
Mar 14, 2013 19:02:15 #
The non-theists are not obligated to disprove that which has never been proved..Are we also obligated to disprove Bigfoot, aliens from outer space or the Easter Bunny?
PNagy wrote:
"Well..what amazes me is that people can believe that there is no God... "
What proof of God have you compiled?
What proof of God have you compiled?
Mar 14, 2013 19:06:15 #
Wheezer1 wrote:
The non-theists are not obligated to prove that which has never been proved..Are we also obligated to disprove Bigfoot, aliens from outer space or the Easter Bunny?
PNagy wrote:
"Well..what amazes me is that people can believe that there is no God... "
What proof of God have you compiled?
What proof of God have you compiled?
Gosh...what an amazing point...how does anyone survive your amazing intellect?
the fact is...nobody can "prove" anything to anyone....the conversation goes deeper than that.
The real question is: Who's worldview "Christian or non-theist/materialist" is most logical to hold?
I say it's the Christian worldview.
Anytime you're ready to have a rational conversation about that, I"m all ears. A conversation that gets past name calling and such stuff.
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