Yeah, I have been an apple fan for several years. But this is probably the end for me. They dumbed down iPhoto, to photos, and worse, eliminated aperture.
The quality keeps dropping...I could go on and on. I thought I would give them one more try... But 6 months later,, they proved they don't care.

Very good advise! thank you all for taking the time to answer!
I love hearing about all these ethnic weddings and traditions :)
Great Tips, esp to do bride's portraits and formals, prior to the ceremony.
And taking the bridal party to a more remote and undisclosed location -I’ll try to make that happen.
- & bkyser, I think I’ll start emphasizing and reminding them of timetables. Thanks for the tips on flow posing, & PPA.

Ed, A couple Questions, if I Dare......
1) On the veil, not sure I understand, ....“In a profile view, it should be tucked back so that it does no intersect with the profile line or the chin/jaw line”?
Do you mean flip it back or take it off?
2) As you know, I’m working on this ‘on camera fill’ technique, when you mention for groups...”A main light at about 20-25 degrees and a fill light on the camera will produce a more pleasing lighting. ... the aforementioned kicker system will work well too”.
Do you recommend just 1 light 20-25°? and 1 kicker? or would 2 be better?

This lighting at 135°, 20°, 45°...etc, is new to me.
I usually picture a clock on the ground...I’m at 6, my loop light is usually at 8 or 4 o’clock etc... When I do loop, butterfly, rembrant - it’s all trial and error. Usually my light is about 45° up. I like catchlites at 10 or 2 o’clock - if I can.
Just my way of coming up with quick & simple... But thanks to you guys on here, I drew out a compass so I can follow the lighting suggestions.

I am guilty of cross and flat lighting groups, I feel like groups are an exercise in compromise. DOF, Lighting, eyes, shadows from others, camera angle , posing, catchlites etc etc etc...
thanks for pointing out -to keep the lighting pattern/ratios so that minor miscalculations will not lead to bad results.


-Thanks Jaysnave, I also previsit, select locations, and take light readings to save time. Murphy always shows up (uninvited)... I think we all have to prepare and adapt as we go, so I really enjoy hearing how you guys deal with this.You have given me many new ideas.
Oh, and bkyser... My name is Kent, I'll try to sign off that way more often.
Bermbuster hasn't anything to do with heavy equipment operator as it probly sounds... Taken from my Motorcross racing days :)

I’m using a Wacom intuos tablet to edit photos in Photoshop CS6. But it has been a real pain since Dec 2016, after upgrading to latest MacBook Pro (with the new touch bar) running Sierra (Currently version 10.12.5).

Some of my problems....The curser disappears from the workspace, shotcuts don’t work, like CNTRL+ALT to change brush size, or X to switch fore & BG colors...You have to tap somewhere outside the workspace to get the curser back, so you can change tools...the lasso tool will hang, or close selection as if you lifted the pen...etc etc...

Wacom is aware of the problems and I have done all 6 driver updates since December.
And 2-3 Os Sierra updates on the Mac. Along with countless reboots, deleting and reinstalling of software and drivers.
Many of the ‘other’ problems (I didn’t mention-like the bluetooth not working) Have been fixed, but the Photoshop bugginess continues.
Yesterday I stumbled across this article at Fstoppers, from January 22, 2015 (Before the new Macbook Pro was out).
And the plugin from Adobe seems to do the trick!

Link to the Fstopper article
https://fstoppers.com/bts/photoshop-shortcuts-stop-working-when-using-wacom-tablets-solution-55592
Link to the Adobe site & Plugin
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-menus-turn-white-mac.html
Link to the Wacom Drivers
http://www.wacom.com/en/support/product-support/drivers

Formals - rushed Portraits
This might be better broken up into several sections; posing-lighting-camera angles-guest control-and stress :)

I'd like to bring my quality of the Formals to a higher level, And see what you'all strive for, and how you set up and pre-think.

I usually have time to set up lights before the ceremony, generally do Formals at the front of the church, but have done some outside... usually have 20min time frame for formals and family, I really struggle with posing - and groups - But really want the bride and groom to shine.
I usually mix the ambient light in the background with off camera flash(even outside). I can usually get get a loop light on the bride w/fill on the groom. (I concentrate on the bride-don't blow out the dress). With hands showing I try to emphasize the rings, otherwise, hide the hands (flowers do good). My veils don't really look good, and I struggle with camera angles - esp full length.
Head and shoulders usually around 135-200mm f/4 at eye level, full length 70mm f/5.6 at waist level.
On groups I resort to 2 lights either side of camera, still mix with ambient, usually 1 - 1 ⅔ under. Higher aperture (f/5.6-8.0)..2-3 shots to catch the winkers. Camera at waist level - usually 70mm - many times leaving lots to crop to help with DOF. Hands front or behind.
I'm usually limited to shutter speed 1/160, and rarely go as high as ISO 400...And I should add, expressions get lost while I struggle with the gear.

What do you use? Hair and accent lights? Ignore the ambient? Do you have any 'go to poses' or camera angles? How do you set-up the lighting, without a modeling light? Thanks in advance!

I for one, really enjoy this section. I REALLY appreciate the time and effort Ed puts in his posts. And all the helpful responses. I know that there is a lot of thought that goes into many of these posts, (& a slip can get you bit!).
Without easy access to internet, I usually run to town, copy and past all the sections that catch my eye, (unless they are short-and I can answer quickly), Then return home for a couple days and try to read thru them.
I always have to read Ed's posts, at least 2-3times. I can't answer any of them quickly. I've thought I disagreed with him a couple times, but after getting out my camera and trying some things --- I thought it best to just keep quiet!
I have no Formal training-(but for many online classes including NYIP) And am probably in the class of 'advanced amateurs'. Although, after being in this section for awhile, I better just say "Amateur". You guys have alot more ground and head experience than me.
I think many of us have to chew'a bit on some of the things we read---be it they go against what we have learned, or better yet, go beyond.
Thanks again to all!

Not sure about newer cameras , but that's the way my 5DMKII has always worked.(one shot mode).
I thought it had something to do with focusing first, then metering. Which the focus beam could throw off metering if used in servo mode.
Also,AI Servo doesn't have Focus Confirmation or lock the way One Shot does. AI Servo is continous to track movement, so it would need continuous Flash Focus Assist beam to work and that would drain the flash batteries pretty rapidly.
Found this tidbit on stock exchange:
Chuck Westfall (Chief Technical Advisor for Canon USA Consumer Imaging Group) has said in the past there about two stops difference in sensitivity between AI Servo and One Shot at the center point for the models current at that time (2014). More recently he has declined to answer such questions with that level of specific information. Many have theorized that Canon Japan has instructed him to reveal less information when that information could be used to deduce technical trade secrets.

That's pretty neat!
The first one looks like a shot from a car window, the second looks like a 3d effect, such vibrant colors! I might try that for some interesting backgrounds.

I would be very interested!

Oh boy, grab your helmet :)

Haha, well said :)
Thanks for the tips!

Great example.
I'm really surprised (from my exp),that your TTL fill did such a great job on her dress and his jacket.
Knowing your camera is doing the metering for the flash, do you purposely expose on the brights-say the dress, or the darks? Or do you just expose for the face and let it go?
I would love to get consistent results like that.

Thanks Beercat! Thats really good to know.
The reason distance was a concern, is I am using a full frame 5dmkII. One of the big advantages I like of the full frame, is when I am concerned about enough DOF for say a group shot at f/2.8-f/4 (low light). I back up, increasing my DOF, and I know I can crop off 1/2 of that shot and still have 12mb to work with. But my light scoop isn't much use.
I can see where the higher ISO would be a big advantage on Light output, aperture size and shutter if needed. And I really like how you and Ed are controlling the ambient, Main & kicker around the venue. Those darn Dj strobes tear me up!
Thanks again!

Thanks, very nice result Beercat. I have been using a light scoop in place of a flash bracket for a couple years. At 6' I lose a little more than 3 stops of light with it, So it's good for up close, esp if bounce is available,...but I have to go to full power at 6'to get f/8, or 11' for ƒ/5.6.
So Outside, evenings, groups, dancefloors etc, have been my problem...need more power, so I generally switch it off and only use the off camera light. But I have always tried to limit ISO to 400 or below due to noise. I haven't tried your higher ISO's yet.
As far as making this way to complicated, I think I resemble that remark!
I see you are from the central coast.... those wedding examples I posted are from Cayucos beach... north of Morro bay. Anywhere near you?
What size light scoop do you prefer? Do you usually use a 50mm so you can stay close? Or with the high ISO's, can you get back 15' or so for a Family shot?

Thanks, that makes sense. I was looking at the shadow on the forehead and below the chin, at first it looked light the light on the right was the source, but I see that side of the face doesn't reflect that.

Jim, it kinda looks like one fill was high on right and low on left. Or maybe the right was the barn lights? I usually work with one off camera fill, but am experimenting, and going back to a flash bracket (for fill), then using the off camera as key or rim.
I struggle balancing ambient with flash, & I think you nailed it. I might add, I've have never had this good of results with TTL.
So many things going on in a shot like this - it's hard to get everything right. But it always helps to have someone like Thomas, to help us see it through a pros' eyes. There is no replacing his (and others) experience and knowledge. Which helps us learn and improve much more quickly.
I too, started late getting serious with photography. The more I learn ... the less I Know! When does it end???? :)