D500 is the most superior crop sensor out there. You can keep all your lenses.
300mm zoom will be 400mm. Great for Birding, Surfing photography, and portraits.
If you are a knowledgeable photographer, no one will be able to tell your photos from full frame.
Especially since final output is usually jpeg and posted online, or printed.
One of the main ways of getting good results and exposure, is to have a digital camera that focuses,
exposes, the moment you press the shutter. Especially outdoors in uncontrolled, non studio, setting.
The D500 has the same processor that the D5 has. There usually is NO hesitation ( like an old film camera)
when pressing the shutter. And a superior percent of your exposures are in focus.
The camera as a body/ performance, is superior to the D810. But the D810 has a superior Sensor.
In a controlled environment, the D810 is a marvel.
Now, the D850 has an even larger size sensor than the D810, and has all the advantages,
and more, than the D500 crop sensor body. And you can set as a crop sensor to give your
birding lenses, that extra reach. If you can afford, D850 seems to be the TOPS.
I just made the decision to stick to crop sensor, because of the advantages of the D500,
at the time it came out. The D500 gave pro photographers a solid choice, not to have to go full frame.
I agree! Any pro program like photoshop, does more than a single photographer will ever use in several lifetimes. I got the PS and Lr CC combo, for Lightroom. But if there's something I need to use in PS, I put the PS tutorial (YouTube) on one of my two monitors. Then I open PS up on the other. I pause the PS tutorial, to perform the operation on my PS. Then go back to the tutorial, and so on. So far, I've learned quite a few special effects and deeper operations.
So, with Photo Shop, just use it for whatever you want!
There is no reason to take a class and learn the whole shmear, unless you absolutely need, or want to.
Isn't NIK software free now? For a few years?
Otherwise, for the price of one lunch at a chain Burger joint, you can have Photoshop, Lightroom Classic, and....
Lightroom CC, <----(which you can install on Desktop, Laptop and Cellphone.) for a month.
Just sacrifice one burger meal a month.
There is a not free but cheap addon to PSE , I have used. It allows / opens up some PS abilities that PSE has under the surface. I think it's called "Elements+".
Check it out!
I used PSE for years. It is a deep program.
It has some powerful features missing from lightroom. Spot healing brush has ai attributes.
If a garden hose is laying across dirt, then lawn, the german shepard with multi colored fur, and a colorful blanket, you can simply "paint" over the hose with a
Small brush. And Voila! The hose is gone, and the untrained eye can't see where it was. Especially if they didn't know a hose was there. Now that's way more powerful than what LR can do.
PSE also has artistic and semi controllable effects you can add onto your image.
With that said, if you are really into creating photographs ( digital or hardcopy ), Lightroom
Is tops in my opinion. Especially if you want to learn the amazing things it can do. I have developed a reverse stenciling technique, that would take 10 x more time and effort to process in Photoshop.
You can paint with gradiant light effects, and add in any amount needed, with microscopic precision.
The artistic control seems endless and is easy on the brain.
Photoshop existed before digital cameras became popular.
It was more of a photo layout program for say, a magazine page creator.
A photographer would need to digitize paper photographs or slides, before using an image
in a computer program like Photoshop. Once in the computer, the "photographer" could swap and manipulate parts of several photos, to make a composite. Add text, change colors, contrast, resize.
After awhile PS could do anything an imagination could think of. It was mind bending.
Of course most of this had little to do with film photography. But many photographers, saw the future; computers!
I consider PSE as the poor man's PS. I never could afford modern versions of PS. I think almost anything can be done on PSE, for the common photographer.
LR came into existence as a digital computer program, strictly for the photographer.
Using parts of Photoshop, and reimagined for a photographers brain. Layers and masking as we know it, were removed, yet some of the same results can be had in a more uncumbersome, and easier way.
But, if a photographer is well founded in PS, they usually aren't interested in learning a new way to do the same things they already can easily do in PS.
For the price of one Meal at the burger place, you can use the latest version of PS and LR for a month.
Many go out to eat more than one time a month. So you're sacrificing one burger meal, for a thousand dollar photo suite. Sounds good for this poor man!
How about artisians? You know, Olympia Beer from artisian wells!
They had a billboard ad with an old hobo saying, " I ain't never seen no artisians!"
There was no Craftsman vs Artist vs Master vs Guru intended in this thread.
It was not my intention to sound like the Karate belt system of rank.
My choice of words show I am not a craftsman in writing. lol!
When I wrote "vs", I was inferring to the thought:
Can a successful artist really exist without also being a craftsman in his field of artistic knowledge?
Of course this analogy was aimed most certainly, to the field of photographic artistry.
Why? Because there are those who feel they need only buy the best equipment, and people with stand in line to buy their most exquisite art. The motivation?
Because they have always wanted to be a photographer, and sell their photographs,
and wouldn't that would be so cool!
In my and other's personal experience, it is not a ranking, or even separate.
You can be a craftsman, without being an artist; i.e. plumber, etc.
And that really depends who's eyes are viewing the plumber's work!
But if you are an artist, in whatever field/ fields, you should know your craft. i.e. Oil paints, brushes, etc. How to clean the brushes, and tricks on how to clean them, etc. etc. LOL!
A professional, photographic artist, usually knows their craft quite well, and can move around in it freely.
anotherview wrote:
Artistry has very little if anything to do with "breaking the rules." Individuals who fall for this approach look for a quick, cheap method of arriving at worthy results.
True artists strive to incorporate the principles, concepts, techniques, rules, guidelines, and suchlike in their chosen field of art, to express themselves effectively.
Other variables shape the artist as well: Experience, imagination, intelligence, education, motivation, discipline, training, practice, dedication, perception, and suchlike.
The artist exerts a concentrated effort over time while taking account of the strictures of his field.
Artistry has very little if anything to do with &q... (
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Agreed! There are times however, that broken rules become a new expression. For instance, where to place the eye of a subject in the portrait composition.. or the annoying "shakey-cam" that became popular a decade or two ago in most crime dramas. But you should have an understanding of "the rules" and why they are there, in order for the breaking of them to have purpose. ( Like in dissonance, causing a feeling of something being unresolved.) By the way, "RULES" comes from the same root word as ruler, i.e. yardstick for measurement. Understanding colors, shapes, mixing pigment (whether literally, or on a monitor ).
All these things have to do with the "craft" an artist uses.
Absolutely...they immerse themselves into the craft that will let them express their art!
If you dont want to immerse yourself into how to use a camera, always leaving it on auto, your art may be fantastic, but there will be limits to expressing yourself. Flair, details, and imagination beyond the Auto "Box", will not exist.
traderjohn wrote:
If the person is a "modestly talented person who dreams of succeeding at a level unobtainable. Play within your game, and you will enjoy life" How can this person enjoy life if he/she is modestly talented and wants the top of the heap. That person is doomed. Is his game mediocrity? Where is the enjoyment in their life?
This is a life lesson, too many are blind to.
Nice point. There's art. And there's crafts.
But, if someone is a craftsman in say, the knowledgable use of their camera equipment and
software, to the extent they are not hindered, they may have an advantage over an equally artistic person, who doesn't know their craft.
schaut wrote:
I started out with very little, and inexpensive equipment. I do not even now have lots of money to spend on expensive "up to speed" lenses or gadgets. When i was a beginner, i accomplished things with my little Oly compact and cardboard tubes, or reversing lenses, or even using rocks and leaves to steady my camera to get a shot! Had a number of compliments that encouraged me at the time to forge onward and upward, and i appreciate that very much. Most of them were "you took THIS shot with THAT camera?" Then i bought a few things that made it so i wouldn't HAVE to use a cardboard tube, rocks, glue, chewing gum, etc. Very convenient! To make a long story short, even though some of these saved me work, i missed being creative with my "inferior" equipment. No, i didn't go back from my 7D and 50D to the little Oly compact i used at the first, but there's still something that turns me on about having to be creative with what i'm using, i.e. going ouside the bounds or limits of what i'm presently using to create good images. I think that involves "artistry" to a degree; the ability to take what you have and create something that some think you shouldn't be able to, or to create a mistake into something beautiful!
If i were working with another medium such as oil paints or clay, i would be able to use my hands to manipulate my "mistakes" into beauty. A camera and photo equipment is more difficult that way because you can't mold it or shove it around unless you're into Photoshop heavily. That being said, there are a lot of thin lines of definition between art and craft. I don't want to destroy creativity by buying so much equipment that it does everything for me and destroys creativity. Keeping your sense of creativity without being overcome by technical buzz is a SKILL in itself!
We all have to find our own definitions and boundaries as to whether and to what degree we want to be an artist or craftsman. There are some artists who don't have the gift of working with craftsmans tools, and there are some craftsmen who are unable to work outside a straight line. It's good to be able to do some of both to accomplish good photography. Some do their own printing or mounting, etc., some don't. A craftsman might get into printing more than some one who wants or needs to be an artist. Both have their talents and gifts.
I could go on with this for a very long time, but i will wrap it up with the statement that artistry and craftsmanship are subjective to the individual. There is a variety of balances according to you and your preferences. Its one of those subjects with which we could fill the ocean! For ME, the term "artistry" evokes a thought of being creative or making something new (inventive?), and craftsman gives me the implied meaning of producing the created thing to (physical) perfection for a use. (A creative craftsman would be one who creates a new use for an old machine, or makes it do what it does better). The artist may not look for immediate perfection, but for the expression. The craftsman will look for the perfection and a way to do it efficiently!
So get out there, CREATE, and perfect your CRAFT!!
I started out with very little, and inexpensive eq... (
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I am simply referring to craftsman, as being someone who is familiar with the tools they use to make art. And uses them at ease, being free in artistically creating in what ever medium they use.
This person has an advantage over an artist who is unfamiliar with the tools of their medium, such as camera, pottery wheel, oil paints etc. Most all of the notable artists in history, in every field and medium, knew their craft well.
RickL wrote:
I lived in Italy and was blessed to spend time with their top painters. They all started out in the artists trade schools. They began sweeping floors and stretching canvas and coating the canvas with gesso. They then learned basic pencil drawing and mixed the colors for the masters and so on. They used to meet in our studio, declare a subject and the challenge was to complete the painting in 15 minutes. They had learned their craft over years of training and then were able to express their creativity. The paintings, sold for thousands
As a teen, my photography came under their practiced eye. Since I did all my own lab work I was blessed to learn my craft under their practiced eye. Was a great experience
Rick
I lived in Italy and was blessed to spend time wit... (
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Thanks for this example. If an artist knows his tools and medium, in manner of second nature, his expressions are freer, and not tied to his stumbling trial and error.
tommystrat wrote:
So if you're getting paid to photograph a subject (portrait, wedding, pets, etc.) and you are told exactly what to shoot and how the client wants the final product to look, by your definition, have you then devolved into a craftsman?
When I was younger, I worked at a guitar factory. We produced custom instruments for the elite of artists at the time. We had a foreman that had a temper. He would crush your ego by smashing the instrument you were working on in front of all the other luthiers.
Over the top, like Gordon Ramsay. This could be devastating to an apprentice. I slowly rose to the position of central builder. Before, when I was an experienced body shaper/ finisher, all of the workers agreed, if you can fix a mistake ( like a broken veneer inlay ), before the foreman made his next rounds, and his eagle eye, didn't notice, and you passed the inspection, with a poker face of course...You Were A Craftsman.
This is how I loosely define it.
tommystrat wrote:
Welcome to the Hog, and way to go to just jump right in! I find your words insightful and timely. Thanks for posting!
Thanks Bud! I'm not a part of any photog community except Flickr.
I'm hoping to meet others and compare ways of thinking about, and doing things.
Give a group of individuals the same stuff to work independently with, and after awhile, they will get similar things accomplished, but usually have shortcuts and tricks of the trade that they developed. I like trading ideas, and learning. I imagine that's why most are here. Aloha!