Such heroes on that plane. I really wish there was an actual transcript of the call. Apparently, the one posted is closely related to it though. The 911 operator said she would have had to disconnect the call in order to record it - which she did not want to do. She went over all of this a few days later with the Todd's wife (Lisa) - all from memory I believe (read somewhere that she made a couple notes on a post-it.).

Here's a link to some of the follow up regarding the call (including the transcript of the conversation between Lisa and the operator (also Lisa): https://www.scribd.com/document/18886478/T7-B12-Flight-93-Calls-Todd-Beamer-Fdr-9-15-01-FBI-302-Transcript-UAL-SAC-Nick-Leonard-Re-Jefferson-Beamer-Call-419

When I brought up flu as a reasonable comparison for child with regard to how dangerous it is. You said "Divert, divert, divert." Remember. Try to keep up. <--that may be why you're getting tired of debating on this site, you gotta keep up with what you write.

So let me try again. Were you as worried about your grandkids back in 2018? If not, why not? If so, what were you calling for? And that was WITH a vaccine. But everyone wasn't taking it. Do you have a hysterical post saying all kids should be getting vaccinated and wearing masks (pre-Covid)?
Or calling people stupid for being hesitant - even though that shot has been FDA approved for a while?

Consistency may also be a reason you're getting tired. But that's just a guess with what little I've seen from you. Doesn't seem like you're able to keep up with all the finger pointing.

Whoa! Didn't know you didn't believe in RSV (but there are plenty of kids in the hospital for that as well). And what did I divert from? I thought we were talking about child safety, no?
But I've heard similar 'rationale' like this before - "flu isn't a real danger since we have a vaccine - even if kids get it and die from it". Weird logic there bud.

Clearly, SteveR is fine with questions and/or objections.

Or this is a perfect example of how people are so sure of themselves that they won't allow even simple questions or differing opinions. FDA approval used to mean something, but not if it stands in the way of a narrative. Disclaimer, I think the vaccines are great, but completely understand why people are hesitant.

P.S. Your grandkids were more at risk of the flu. Don't check out the 2018 flu stats for kids, it'll give you a heart attack.

As I understand, it's not proven - but the theory is that the earth continues to create fossil fuel on it's own...due to abiogenic hydrocarbon production (within the mantle?). There are several articles that entertain the thought that oil didn't originate from organic matter, but the theory has been around since the 1960s from what I can tell.

Article from 2015: https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/we-are-not-running-out-of-oil-earth-produces-crude/

It references this study in Science: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/319/5863/604

Appreciate good discourse in this (or almost any) topic these days...often hard to come by for some reason.
In response, I'd say I mostly agree with your overall position regarding people in your age range.
However, I think this IS a huge issue. Age matters and there isn't a 'one size fits all' answer. So to address your bullet points:

a - I don't know how we could know which is more contagious at this point. I suspect that Covid-19 is more contagious, but I also don't have a reason to think the stats are comparable. We've never done testing like this. Are there tons of people who would test positive if we did the same for the Flu? If companies made testing for the flu a prerequisite for entry to the office, would we find far more 'cases' that would otherwise go unnoticed. I suspect so.

b - Covid-19 is clearly more deadly than the Flu...for the elderly. Every reliable statistic I've seen that stratifies by age shows the opposite is true for the young. So I don't agree with your statement in general, only as it relates to older individuals (and possibly those with comorbidities).

c - I don't disagree with your comment on long-term effects. I've seen instances of 'long haulers' related to Covid that I have never heard of concerning flu. Whether long-term means a few weeks, month or years...I've never heard it used for the flu, so I imagine this is a phenomenon only related to Covid-19.

d - I'm not sure how to address the vaccine piece of this topic as it relates to the overall threat. First, they are very different viruses regarding how they mutate and how we are developing the respective vaccines. The mutations (and possible combinations of mutations) in the Flu are far greater than in Covid. I'm under the impression that the immunity for Sars-CoV2 will be similar to Sars-CoV1. Which appears to last quite a long time - 23 years so far. I wouldn't even really use the word immunity as it relates to the Flu vaccine (at least not in the same way). It may give protection, but they appear to be radically different.

So my conclusion is this, people should weigh the risks and determine what's right for them. If everyone is simply given the facts, I believe more people will be appropriately concerned - without mandates (like Sweden has shown).

As far as why this has been so hard to work through and so political, I suggest you watch this video (it's very long though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P3SkTBfGzU&feature=emb_logo
There's also a transcript of it here: https://rationalground.com/governor-desantis-roundtable-experts-advocate-for-normal-life-for-young-people/
I recognize it's being done by a governor (so there's clearly a political party involved). But research the panel of scientists (from Stanford, Oxford, Harvard) who also mention other leading epidemiologists who have been more or less silenced for dissenting views. That's not how science works and is certainly why there is distrust in the public.

Says the guy who ignored a similar post from page one...also from Robert

This post makes sense...I assume it'll be ignored.

Comment removed - as I originally crossed up a couple of different studies when I posted...one of which has been referenced above - the fishing boat.

How am I changing the subject by showing that your examples are flawed - on said topic?

Show your 'scientific data' on the topic instead of the 2 extremely flawed examples. I'm starting to think you don't actually know what science is.

If all you have is that we should heed the recommendations...fine, but leave it at that. I'll help you...
rehess says the CDC thinks masks are effective - the end

I agree that I don't wish to put all of my trust in the CDC. This is a bit of a call-back to an earlier thread that also tried to claim masks are effective because of the beauty salon example in Missouri. Some basic principles of science can apply even if the CDC as a whole shouldn't be treated as gospel. In this instance I had used the CDC's account of this issue instead of some 'news' site or opinion piece. Here's the link:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

Mortality rate is not tied to the testing. What you're referring to is the Case Fatality Rate (CFR). That's what most people quote, but those are 2 different things.

By all means, if you're wrong - change the topic.
But don't think for a second that you aren't being exposed. You say you've made your choice (which is obvious), but you did so by ignoring science.

The crazy thing is that this is such a new virus and so much work is being done to understand it (including transmission). Yet you've made your choice. Never to change...regardless of the facts.

Sad - but please stop spreading misinformation.

Quick question: Which one of us thinks you don't need studies?

Hint: Scroll up

Yes - me, doctors and scientists at the CDC are grasping at straws instead of listening to your "good evidence."

I can't find a way around you belonging to the anti-science crowd.

Very wrong and you're spreading misinformation. A positive test DOES NOT mean you're actively shedding.

Harvard doctor explaining the threshold for transmission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Sv_pS8MgQ

This is why we need to follow the science instead of claiming anecdotal 'evidence' to promote the "Wear your **** mask!!!" movement.