Now, if someone can tell me how this is related to faith...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19313058

11 pages in 3 days.
No change of position from anyone.

For info:
Muslims and Jews agree on one thing (ah!): Jesus is not the son of god, just a prophet.
Religion is an organization of like believers, not a belief.
Christ did not modify anything in 'the law', he was very specific about that.
God did not create anything from nothing, if I recall 'there was chaos'. If chaos was there, there was something. The 'days' as described in the bibles were periods of building, same as when you build a house, first you create the foundations then... one step at a time that need to wait for the previous one to be done (like waiting for cement to be dry).
Then, still according to the bible there was other life around, monster, gods, and humans. Not to name him but Job was not a Jew so where was he coming from?
In no way Darwinism and evolution is denying god (unless you are obtuse). The interesting part of Darwin's theory is that we see it everyday yet foolish folks still deny it and the benefits of evolution. The real question is: Is evolution a random event or planned? If one can answer that, he can prove the existence of god yet, there is the pesky claimed existence of other things in the genesis.
The original sin is knowledge, the punishment, separation from god, not 'death'.
Despite all that or more likely, because of all that faith is not something easy to keep.

----
If one reads the bible it reads like a life manual, a cookbook to eliminate disease, a hygienic guide (for the same reason), a social guide (still the same reason - wash your feet to prevent corruption entering a house - remember no shoes), a sexual guide (to reduce promiscuity and associated STD as well as degenerative illnesses), a war guide (of all things) There are many other information that are given that allow for a small group of new comers to survive in a hostile environment that was created before them!!!

Remember that history proves time and time again that small groups of folks are capable of reversing a trend just by being tightly knit and capable of staying that way for long period of time in order to change what is around them. The bible allows for that. What it does not allow is faith. That came through Christ using the holy spirit.

First salvation came through travail and sacrifice. Those who see sacrifice as an heresy basically deny the existence of Christ as if I am not mistaken, he WAS the ultimate sacrifice but hey! you are entitled to your opinion.

And oh, yeah, belief in God (positive of negative) was not a Hebrew exclusive. The Egyptians had to believe in God first to let the Hebrew out of their country. You do not fear what you do not believe in. The argument fear of the unknown is moot as if you believe the unknown can hurt you, you basically admit it exists. (That will fly almost above everyone else's head).

I do not expect anyone to change his or her opinion here, this just another low blow on the thread itself.

11 pages in three days??? (and I just contributed to the flow :-/ )

So....

Your real goal was not to find out something but to rile up folks until they feel disgusted and quit?

Nice.

Really.

For an image to reach this small size the compression is really high. Under normal circumstance we would not see any banding but in large area of similar colors the compression ALSO compresses the number of colors in the image. The switch from one shade to another is much sharper, creating the banding.

Banding also comes from transforming color depth from 24 to 8 bits (native capture is likely 12 bits by the way, 14 bits max). This is an in camera process since you make a point of typing: "I do a lot of this type of shooting in fine jpeg"

What comes out of your camera is either too compressed to save space or you create trouble when using the software and saving. Note that this is not a problem created by saving the same file over and over.

Solution? Select the least compression ratio on camera and tweak the compression in the software.

Other solution: check if there is a CMOS/software update for your camera.

Love the: we are winning!

WTF is here to win? Le longest craziest thread medal?

I just see a bunch of folks making statements that support nothing about even less to prove something no one comprehends.

If any camps takes that for any one side support you are way more senile than I thought.

The only thing I get of this is a discovery of how nutty some are as well as the flagrant (to me) proof that we know less than nothing about ourselves with one reception: We all want to be right.

But but but... What is faith?

@eskiles... Love the kindergarten challenge. Are you getting younger while typing? If so? How? Many her would like to drink from your fountain of youth.

In case you are not aware many Christians have walked out of many denominations because they came to realize that per-programmed services with pagan rituals are not only dull but also kill any faith one may have had in the first place.

I was born within a catholic family, half drowned by a freaking priest while two idiots stood aside, taking responsibility for my future 'religious' behavior. Later I was slapped by a priest to 'confirm' my dedication to that church then later I had to have to go through the ritual of... ' grande communion'. After that, I played soccer or whatever when I was able to escape the scrutiny of my overzealous family (especially my grand mother).

I became an atheist.

Then I became a 'born again christian'. I went through the dipping, recognized Christ as my personal savior. Then I opened my eyes to the world and realized that like my previous forced 'membership' I was among folks unable to see around them and claiming that only they were right. That came into focus when I married a woman who was not of the 'faith'. She was shunned.

I walked out.

I have Christ on my side every moment, every breath. I still do bad things, I am not a freaking 'saint' or 'holy' man. Instead, I am a simple man who does what he can around him, to change things one at a time, on a personal level.

Not being part of group of folks beating their chest in unison to claim 'WE ARE RIGHT, YOU ALL OTHER WILL DIE' makes absolute sense to me. I look at these groups as a critical problem to anyone who has questions and is rebuffed by the sectarian attitude displayed.

Faith is a gift, not work. It is a curse as you cannot share it. It is also a strength that allows one go through life tribulations without worry. Faith does not make life easier or make you accept some aspect of it without question(s). Only a fool has no question. Interestingly enough (and a contradiction), 'innocents like them will gain access to god' (bad paraphrase).

In threads like this one, the conversation turns into personal challenge, like the one you set, eskiles. What is your history (as christian)? Anything else is bad in your point of view, after all, why type to other folks if not with the premise that you will be the biggest, baddest bully for god.

To some aspect I am also Muslim as I take everything under 'god's will' (Insha'Allah). There the Muslims beat the christian to the pole as they recognize that god decide, not them. Since I have not studied many religions I cannot tell how many have the same basic credo (regardless of god). I also agree with: "Allah Akbar" (God is great) only not as a war cry but as a simple truth. An Imam deplored that I was not Muslim when I was in the middle east!!! (I did not dare tell anyone there that I was reading the Koran and felt that it was the simplistic equivalent of Mao's communist little red book.)

I love your dismissal of another's self taught Christianity. Your 'superior' attitude and your commanding 'knowledge' makes you small. The more you huff and puff the more insignificant you become.

Believe your own way, right or wrong. Let other do the same. The proof of anything will be when you (and everyone else die).

Once you start reflecting on other's point of view, start to see what they see or try to explain, you will start growing. Only then will you learn what faith is. Instead of feeling threatened you may feel vindicated without having to resort to "let's duck it out".

For info: You learn more from 'false witnesses' than 'accepted' learning. Those around you, even the town drunk, can teach you a lot.

Little story:
I was in an hospital bed, both feet encased in plaster, left arm in an open cast and my right index finger sandwiched between to pieces of aluminum to keep it straight.
A nurse who was less than appreciated as being rather rude told me: If you are so sure that there is nothing wrong you, why are you not sitting up yet?
She made me mad and forced me to look at was going on. She was right. I pushed my legs off the bed and would have fallen off had I not passed out and fallen backward on the bed, casts on the ground and the rest limp on the mattress.
I was yelled at by everyone, especially the surgeon.
This was the beginning of my recovery and physical therapy.
This woman was (as I interpreted it) a voice telling me that while I was healing I had to do my part and apply my faith to something else than just believing I was well.
I still do not like this woman nor do I have any fond memory of her as a nurse. Yet she is the one who was catalytic to the changes that followed.

Moral? The truth comes out not only from your bible but also from what is around you, even an atheist or god forbid, someone who has a different credo from yours.

Note: Kadeem as a Christian convert would have to move out of his country to survive. A christian can convert to Islam but an Islamist (or Muslim) cannot convert to Christianity (or anything else). The result is death under sharia law.

And the original: What is faith is still not answered because there is no answer.

If I loan money to a person (I never do) I expect this person to pay me back (ah!). That means I believe this person will pay me back (Yeah, right). That also mean that because I believe in the person to pay me back (???) I faith in that person's honesty.

If someone has seen a giant wave in a sea and I describes it to me who has never seen anything else than a desert I have to believe the person or accept it as a tall tale. I do not have the knowledge or experience of the person and if I select to believe the story I put my faith into something I cannot verify.

In both samples I select to have faith in someone else actions and narrations.

Faith in these cases is the same, you have to accept something as possible (even if doubtful - being paid back, the borrower is a weasel) or true (a wave a big as a dune when my only horizon are the sand dunes surrounding me).

Faith in religion is slightly different as, it seems to escape many here, faith has at least two facets:
- The first one (the hardest) is faith w/o proof created and maintained by the 'will to believe in something higher); this faith is "man made" and easily shakable especially in this type of argumentation.
- It is a gift from god (whatever it/he/she maybe for you). This faith is not spoken about because whomever has it knows that they cannot offer it or pass it to someone else. This faith is a burden as one keeps silent over it but act upon it when asked.

So, what is faith? It is not a knowledge. It is not the result of non-nonsensical exchange. It is not accessible to all. It is not sharable.

Faith is a strong belief w/o proof, unlike sciences that demands multiple physical verifications.

Denying faith and/or sciences is sheer stupidity as both live side by side.

Remember that not so long ago we were killing folks who dared say that earth was a ball in the name of a faith. Sciences has opened doors that were closed while faith allows us to survive in the belief that there is something better than this mindless hateful existence.

Faith the opium of the masses? Not quite. Faith divides, kills, among other cheerful things. Faith is a lie used by criminals to advance their own agenda. Faith is a secret knowledge that allows peace, even when killed y a liar.

Yet faith allows individuals to deal with the impossible and truly moves mountains. Sciences (knowledge) destroys them.

Speaking of foolishness. The idea is to get the proof of your faith. there never will be one.
To quote the bible over sins is to use faith (intangible) to use the absurd to prove something. Go back to your hole and do us all a favor, study theology and other religions, you certainly need it.

Killing one self was and is absurd as the results are:

There is something else:
Oops, I made a serious mistake (atheist)
Oops, I made a serious mistake, wrong god/belief, (whatever believer)
Oops, I went against my belief (ouch, don't ask me who won the jackpot)
S**** I was happy after all! (Everyone)

There is nothing:


In short, my dear Steve, had you read correctly you would have seen the trap behind my statement. But then again, in your zeal to prove nothing but take up space you have to fall into all the pitfalls laid in this thread, one after the other.

If you are a believer, why do you care so much as, if I recall correctly, all religions have a common trait: Those who do not believe will go to hell (or another corrective lifetime, whatever 'punishment meted out' - if any).

Once again, for you , Steve, (and everyone else), the proof of faith is in the pudding, after death. Hasten it, if you want a confirmation of your righteousness, otherwise? Just let it go, who cares one way or another?

I certainly hope that all the stompers here will either put up or shut-up, you know you cannot win such 'debate' . This of course applies to any and all faiths - including atheists.

In essence: The more you try to prove or disprove something the more you appear to be disturbed that the other maybe right. There is nothing to be learned here, other than that.

If you are sure in your beliefs (any), you can just smile.

I do.

Proof of faith:
Shoot yourself in the head and see what happens.

Digital zoom on a coolpix (or any other camera with exaggerated specs) will give trashy results.

This plus:
High ISO
underexposure
so-called high resolution...

Nothing can save you from disaster.

Extrapolation of pixels is your worse enemy (especially in this case)

= up and down =agreement
side to side = negation....

As we typed a long time ago...

/me is out.

err... You need to read about the role of a government...

Ideally it is restricted to:
Infrastructure (ground/air/water transportation)
Communication (wired/wireless - not content)
Economy (Currency control)
Foreign affairs (commercial and defense)
That touches ONLY the commercial aspect of our lives.

That leaves out everything else.

BUT since we are all "sons of bitches" (yet again) we had to introduce...
Laws and means to enforce them. Originally meant to protect the weak. Now laws are now made to protect anything but the weak and we 'sons of bitches" (third time) are looking at laws as unfair and repressive. Of course they are, they are supposed to prevent us to kill each other... Health care laws are supposed to protect the sick but at the financial expense of the healthy so we have to shoot that down too.

It just will not do to accept an anonymous sacrifice. It is better to be known locally as the guy who gives 100 dollars every Sunday at church to support the church 'charity'.

Then again, just my opinion.