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Jul 12, 2020 14:31:15   #
Number 1 the Closest and most Tightly Framed....Great Photos All !
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Jul 9, 2020 17:32:40   #
David Martin wrote:
Looks like it is already being done.
In a previous post I offered a link to an article that explains how it is being done:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/11/852354920/market-for-blood-plasma-from-covid-19-survivors-heats-up


Thanks David ! That was exactly the information I was looking for....Now to contact the Mayo Clinic or the other Organizations in the Article to see if the Plasma is only for Critically Ill Patients, or any Patient Sick with Covid, or could it be injected as a preventative into People Who have never had Covid...Sounds like the Demand for the Plasma is much more than the Supply so probably just for Critically Ill, however if available and if You or a Family Member get Covid how to request and get the Plasma...I have had Great Results from Doctors and Hospitals over the Years but sometimes Conventional Doctors are adamant about their Treatment Regimen without considering other options, and I hate the idea of not being in the Hospital with the Patient to ask questions and monitor treatment....Thanks Again !
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Jul 9, 2020 16:34:53   #
"""FOR YOU CAPITALISTS OUT THERE THIS MIGHT BE A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY IN SOLICITING DONORS, MAKING THE PLASMA DRAW INJECTING THE RECIPIENT OR STORING THE PLASMA WITH ANTIBODIES FOR THEM….

IF THIS WILL NOT WORK PLEASE TELL ME WHY IN LOGICAL DETAIL WHY IT WILL NOT WORK AND I WILL LEAVE THE ISSUE AS UNTENABLE

IF IT WILL WORK THEN PLEASE TELL ME IN LOGICAL DETAIL WHY THIS IS NOT BEING DONE…."""

Sorry for the all Capital Letters, I have bad vision but still no one has answered this question....?
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Jul 9, 2020 13:52:36   #
ME, A MARXIST, HARDLY….IN 1967 I BELIEVED IN THE DOMINO THEORY AND FIGHTING COMMUNISM SO I VOLUNTEERED FOR THE DRAFT, THE PARATROOPERS, RANGERS, SPECIAL FORCES AND VIET NAM…WALKED A LOT OF POINT, WAS ALMOST KILLED A HALF A DOZEN TIMES THAT I KNOW OF HAVE A PURPLE HEART FOR HAND GRENADE WOUNDS…I BELIEVE IN CAPITALISM AS WITHOUT INCENTIVE PEOPLE WILL NOT TAKE CHANCES, INNOVATE, AND WORK HARD…BUT I ALSO BELIEVE IN TAKING CARE OF THE DISABLED AND THE ELDERLY, PAYING A LIVING WAGE AND BENEFITS, AND THE MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT, SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AND A WHOLE RANGE OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED SOCIALISM…

OVER 30 YEARS AGO I ATTENDED A LARGE MEETING IN A SMALL TOWN OF ABOUT 6000 PEOPLE….ALL THE BUSINESSES WERE THERE AND THE CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS, COMMUNITY LEADERS, FARMERS, YOU NAME IT…THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER WAS A GUY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHOSE WHOLE SPEECH WAS ON HOW WE HAD TO PREPARE FOR A SERVICE ECONOMY…EVERYONE THERE INCLUDING MYSELF TOLD HIM IF WE DO NOT PRODUCE QUALITY GOODS FOR SALE HERE AND ABROAD WE WOULD BECOME A THIRD WORLD NATION….

GETTING BACK ON SUBJECT OF INJECTABLE PLASMA ANTIBODIES AS OPPOSED TO A VACCINE,,,,I AND PROBABLY MANY OTHERS WOULD GLADLY PAY A FEW THOUSAND FOR A RECOVERED COVID PATIENT WITH ANTIBODIES TO HAVE THAT PLASMA DRAWN AND INJECTED BEFORE I GOT SICK OR WHEN I GOT SICK IF IT IS PROVEN THAT IT WOULD SUBSTANTIALLY IMPROVE MY CHANCES OF SURVIVAL…THIS COULD POSSIBLY BE OF BENEFIT TO THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AND SAVE THOUSANDS OF LIVES…

FOR YOU CAPITALISTS OUT THERE THIS MIGHT BE A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY IN SOLICITING DONORS, MAKING THE PLASMA DRAW INJECTING THE RECIPIENT OR STORING THE PLASMA WITH ANTIBODIES FOR THEM….

IF THIS WILL NOT WORK PLEASE TELL ME WHY IN LOGICAL DETAIL WHY IT WILL NOT WORK AND I WILL LEAVE THE ISSUE AS UNTENABLE

IF IT WILL WORK THEN PLEASE TELL ME IN LOGICAL DETAIL WHY THIS IS NOT BEING DONE….
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Jul 8, 2020 20:14:33   #
David Martin wrote:
It's true, profit is a great motivating factor. For which we have many products and services we might not otherwise have.
In your working life, did you expect to get paid for your labors? Or did you do it for free just to have something to occupy your time?
Or do you perhaps have a retirement plan wherein you invest your money? If so, do you expect to get a reward for lending that money, for example hoping to earn interest, get a dividend, or an increase in value of your investment?

Individuals and businesses take financial risk when developing a product, such as a vaccine or medication. They expect a monetary reward for taking the risk, and a reward for providing a product or service of value.

We can debate just how much of a profit is reasonable, but I don't think we should stop rewarding actions that truly benefit society.
It's true, profit is a great motivating factor. Fo... (show quote)


"""So, the "antibodies from recovered patient" is an immediate affect and is viewed as a means of fighting current infection, while a vaccination won't fight current infection but is probably longer lasting.

See the discussion at
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-648899-1.html"""

Thanks for the excellent responses I still do not see why a National and/or Statewide effort is not being made to collect Plasma with Antibodies from Recovered Covid Patients to be used in the Treatment of all Patients with Covid as who knows how long before a vaccine and whether it will be effective or not.

I believe very strongly in Capitalism you might note I stated to pay those Recovered Covid Patients for their Plasma with Antibodies, but sometimes I think the playing field is rigged and solutions that work that don't cost a lot of money or put money in the pockets of individuals instead of corporations, that those solutions are ignored or discarded...
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Jul 8, 2020 20:04:04   #
David Martin wrote:
It's true, profit is a great motivating factor. For which we have many products and services we might not otherwise have.
In your working life, did you expect to get paid for your labors? Or did you do it for free just to have something to occupy your time?
Or do you perhaps have a retirement plan wherein you invest your money? If so, do you expect to get a reward for lending that money, for example hoping to earn interest, get a dividend, or an increase in value of your investment?

Individuals and businesses take financial risk when developing a product, such as a vaccine or medication. They expect a monetary reward for taking the risk, and a reward for providing a product or service of value.

We can debate just how much of a profit is reasonable, but I don't think we should stop rewarding actions that truly benefit society.
It's true, profit is a great motivating factor. Fo... (show quote)


These are great replies, but You all seem to say a Plasma Injection with Antibodies from someone who has recovered from Covid would help a Sick Patient with Covid, if so Why is not everyone sick with Covid getting a Plasma Injection with Antibodies from Someone who has recovered from Covid ?

I do believe strongly in Capitalism but to me this is a National Emergency, and what is the difference between paying a Recovered Covid Patient for a Plasma Donation and Paying a Corporation to develop a Vaccine, and until a Vaccine is developed would not pursuing big time recruitment of Recovered Covid Patients and Paying them well for a Plasma Donation make sense if it would save people's lives and keep the Death Rate Down ?

Vaccines usually take years to develop and years more until they are determined safe for the General Public beyond the Trials to thousands if not millions of people being vaccinated and the results...
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Jul 8, 2020 16:59:37   #
rwoodvira wrote:
Here's a brief description:
https://medium.com/@macromoltek/the-difference-between-vaccines-and-antibody-therapeutics-d4c82f9abfdf

In the long run, vaccines are a more permanent solution; except when the virus mutates, then you might have to update the virus. And whoever comes up with that vaccine - its like printing money.

Sadly, some viruses have problems resist vaccines; AIDS is an example.


Thank You for the reply and link, very interesting...But unless I am missing something it was comparing Vaccines with Antibody Drugs not a Blood Draw of Antibodies from Someone who has recovered from the Disease, if a Blood Draw works One would think the Federal Government and/or the individual State Governments would be actively recruiting Recovered Covid Patients and offering to pay them Handsomely for a Blood Draw to be used on Sick Patients or to be stored to be used on future Sick Patients...Does the Article You presented mean that there might be an immune response like to Antibody Drugs in the Article ? Anyway I Thank You for the Article and look forward to your reply....
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Jul 8, 2020 13:19:41   #
A Vaccine when injected causes the Patient to develop Antibodies to Covid or the Flu or whatever disease the Vaccine is developed for.....Taking a Blood draw from a Recovered Covid Patient with Antibodies in their Blood and injecting that into a Patient with the same Blood Type should put those Antibodies into the Bloodstream of the Patient thus doing exactly the same as a Vaccine...

Recovered Patients could be paid a goodly sum for the blood draw and the draw could immediately be administered or stored...Looking at Recovery Rates as opposed to New Infected Rates this would probably never produce enough unless administered only to those who are sick but that is probably not the reason this is not being done on a large scale...

Follow the Money,,,,it is all about the Companies getting Money to develop the Vaccine and Those Who will Profit from the Vaccine,,,,it is Always Only All About the Money.....and Those Who Profit from it......
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Jul 7, 2020 16:38:04   #
SalvageDiver wrote:
Well I watched the video as you suggested and then went to his website and reviewed the studies he referred to in this video and other articles authored by him. Here are a few of my conclusions.

1) The studies were about protecting ME (the wearer), not YOU (the other person).

2) most of the study conclusions were inconclusive as many of the studies were grossly under-powered, i.e. low sample size. The studies also focused on the ME not the YOU.

3) Many of his references were meta-analysis. A meta-analysis is one step above a guess for a variety of reasons. The studies focused on the ME not the YOU

4) Some of the studies concluded that while N95 masks were effective for HC workers, they weren't recommended for the general public because improper fitting and use making them ineffective for the USER.
Again they focused on the ME not the YOU.

5) The studies evaluated masks as the ONLY preventative measure for the ME, not in combination with other preventative measures and the impact on YOU.

The world agrees that masks (of any kind) offer only limited benefit to the ME (user) but to extend that conclusion to the YOU is not only wrong, but may be dangerous. They also agree that masks by themselves aren't the answer, but just one important tool in the world's toolbox to reduce the pathogen spread.

On a personal level (opinion):

Wearing a mask still feels better even though I know there only a limited personal benefit. Any barrier to the aerosol is better than none at all.

On a practical level (fact):

Every surgeon goes into the OR gowned and masked, not to protect him, but the patient on the operating table. This is almost universal. And the surgeon doesn't typically use N95, but general surgical masks.

In infectious environments in hospitals it's not uncommon to have the patient wear a mask in addition to the caregiver. This reduces (not eliminate) transmission in both directions, protecting both the patient and the caregiver.

On a macro level (fact):

Countries that habitually use masks have better outcomes. For instance, S Korea and Japan. During flu season, masks are very common, not so much to protect ME, but as respect for YOU in their societies. They both have a strong sense of community and general respect for others around them, not wanting to spread their infection.

S Korea uses face masks as one element of many to reduce the pandemic impact. In a county with a population over 50M, they've only had 285 covid related deaths. Now compare that with CA's 6500 deaths with a population of only 40M or the 35K deaths in NY with a population of only 20M.

Japan is similar. With a population of 125M, they've only had 980 covid related deaths. They also didn't use lack of testing as an excuse, they've only done a total of 380K covid tests, while CA is doing 100K per day. Mask use there isn't the only mitigation element, but just of of many. It's highly unlikely that without masks Japan would have had these kind of results.

Nor did these two countries shut down their society as we did.

I was tickled to review a Chinese study referenced but this guy. The paper concluded that it wasn't wise for the general public to wear masks (for influenza). Before the pandemic, S Korea performers visiting China were mocked for wearing masks there. But when the pandemic began, China went on a worldwide buying spree vacuuming up all the PPE they could find. During the pandemic they made face masks mandatory. Even if they under reported their results by 10X, they still had grossly better outcomes in this pandemic than us. Face masks were integral with with other mitigation methods to reduce the pandemic impact on their society. Look at pictures of China today and you'll see almost everyone wearing face masks.

Then as a final thought, how many HC workers does one think would agree to work in covid ICU's around the world that would seriously consider face masks as worthless or even dangerous?
Well I watched the video as you suggested and then... (show quote)


Bravo SalvageDiver! Masks protect You and Everyone Else, one Doctor said in returning home he took off his clothes put them in the washer and immediately took a shower before seeing his Family...Taking off your Mask never touching your mouth, nose, eyes or face and putting the mask on a window sill exposed to ultraviolet light for a week to ten days, putting your clothes in the washer and taking a shower and then after the shower using Clorox Wipes disinfecting everything You touched before the shower seems prudent....

I wear a Mask and am thinking adding eye protection let us say You don't wear a Mask and if it is proven in the Future that Masks don't work, So What, all I am out and the People Who wear Masks are out is the inconvenience of wearing a Mask...

But as it has been proven that Masks work, and if it is not disproven in the Future and You and the People who don't wear Masks get Sick and Die or even Worse cause Someone Else to get Sick and Die then How will You Feel ???
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Jul 5, 2020 15:26:28   #
The Penetration versus Expansion Argument has been going on for Decades and ideally We would have Ammo that does both...For this reason some Folks """ Dutch Load ""'' in a Revolver Cylinder or a Pistol Magazine alternating Hollow Points with Solids....Also in any Urban Jungle there is Cover to fight behind, Cars, Trees, Walls, Appliances, Furniture, Bushes, Posts, Poles etc...which presents a problem to penetrate through and still have enough energy to penetrate the Bad Guy into a Kill Shot or a Shot that incapacitates...

Here is some very Interesting Ammunition I have not tried yet with Some being Maximum Expansion and Some being Maximum Penetration and Some being a Combination of both....Click on each Picture of the Ammo to get a Summary of how it performs....

https://www.underwoodammo.com/pages/lehigh-defense
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Jul 5, 2020 14:31:15   #
Najataagihe wrote:
For use on humans in a civilian setting, yes, I would disapprove, as you are unnecessarily putting innocents at risk.

Try defending your choice of that ammo in court.


Civilian self defense is not military combat.

What is needed for one is inappropriate for the other.


Indeed, requirements even change in military engagements, depending on the mission.

What is needed in a jungle is not what is needed in a desert is not what is needed in the woods, etc.

You don't have to worry about what ammo you use in a military conflict, unless you modify it, as you have no choice in what to use.


As a civilian, however, it is critical that you choose your equipment wisely, because you always have THREE battles for each engagement.

First, you have to survive the fight.

Second, you have to defend against possible criminal charges.

Third, regardless of the outcome of the second, you have to defend against civil charges brought about by family seeking revenge.


You might want to reconsider your choices and make those that will allow you to win all three battles.

The cost of losing any one of them is considerable.


There is no place for macho in a two-way shooting gallery - military or civilian.

You are, or course, free to choose as you please.

That's why we served, in the first place.


Choose wisely.
For use on humans in a civilian setting, yes, I wo... (show quote)


First Thank You for Your Service in the Military Serving Our Country and Our People....

Your Post is Obviously Intelligent and Well Thought out....As someone once said,,,""" Every Bullet You Fire has a Lawyer Attached to it """ And as someone else once said,,,, """ Train as You Fight, Fight as You Train """

However I would still disagree and this is just my opinion...You said there were 3 Battles actually there are 4..

"""As a civilian, however, it is critical that you choose your equipment wisely, because you always have THREE battles for each engagement.

First, you have to survive the fight.

Second, you have to defend against possible criminal charges.

Third, regardless of the outcome of the second, you have to defend against civil charges brought about by family seeking revenge."""

The fourth Battle is what someone once said,,,, """ Better to Be Judged by 12 than Carried by Six """
The fourth Battle is Actually the First Battle,,,If You don't Survive the Gunfight the other 2 Battles don't matter.
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Jul 5, 2020 10:20:11   #
Architect1776 wrote:
So I guess you would disapprove of my AP defense ammunition?


Being an Ex Combat Soldier and having to Fight Against Soldiers taking Cover behind Trees and Rocks and Bushes and Depressions in the Ground,,,,Penetration is Paramount to me over Expansion....That being said good luck on AP or Amour Piercing Ammo,,,,I did some sandbag tests a few years ago with M16/AR15 556 62 grain bullets with the steel core and 7.62X39 full Metal Jacket bullets not AP AK47 ammo and 308 Battle Rifle full Metal Jacket Ammo not AP,,,and at relatively close range none of that Ammunition would penetrate one sandbag laying horizontal to the Shooter....So I dug out my Bolt Action .458 Magnum Dangerous Game Rifle shooting steel jacketed 500 Grain Bullets and it shot through two sandbags one horizontal and right behind it another sandbag layed out vertical or lengthwise to the shooter...For the OP's Great Little Concealed Carry Snub Nose Revolver Self Defense Hollow Points or even FMJ is not as important as getting rounds quickly on Target killing or incapacitating the Bad Guy before he kills You....
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Jul 5, 2020 10:03:11   #
David Martin wrote:
"UV Light Therapy is Being Studied as C****-** Treatment at Cedars Sinai Hospital"
https://nurse.org/articles/uv-light-therapy-c****av***s-c***d19/


Very interesting article, it's interesting that UVA in k*****g the V***s can also cause cancer, almost as ironic as radiation and chemotherapy which can k**l cancer and cause cancer...Immunotherapy seems like the only logical way to pursue cancer treatment and if cancer can ever be controlled since the cancer cells seem to replicate indefinitely the answer to immortality might be solved...Intravenous Vitamin C therapy if I recall has already been proven to help in recovery from almost any disease or operation,,,but Good Luck on getting any Conventional Doctor to Approve any of these Therapies....it is interesting in the Article that heat and humidity and UVA Light seems to k**l the C***d V***s,,,too bad only heat and humidity can't work on their own as a simple steam therapy of the lungs would then k**l the C***d V***s....Lastly since the V***s attaches to Human Cells through the ACE2 Receptors possibly ACE2 Inhibitors like the Blood Pressure Medicines might combat the V***s....
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Jul 4, 2020 13:26:43   #
I have that same handgun with Eagle Grips and a Bobbed Hammer....I shoot and carry 38 Special....the Bobbed Hammer still lets me shoot single action but does not snag when drawn from a pocket...I mostly carry an old Smith and Wesson 638 Bodyguard 38 Special snub nose Revolver in my right front pocket...comes out fast and slick as a whistle,,,when I holster carry it is with a 9mm Glock 26 or one of my single stack small 9mm pistols...If you have a range that allows it, or are on private ground with a good backstop, practice drawing your handgun and shooting dead center mass at speed...Try it with an unloaded gun first until You get used to it and can do it safely...We are not talking target shooting or bullseye shooting but combat shooting get rounds on target at speed try to get them in a dinner plate grouping or smaller...
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Jul 3, 2020 21:37:35   #
David Martin wrote:
Actually it's' the number of positive tests that are increasing by thousands every day.
Implying that infections are increasing. No doubt they are, but to what extent?
Turns out, unfortunately, that the CDC and at least several of the states, do not separate positive v***s tests vs. positive antibody tests. Rather, they are lumped together into a single tally. Irresponsible to say the least, if not downright misleading, especially on the part of the "esteemed" CDC.

In light of this, I posted a question on our state's Department of Health facebook page asking how they count their positive tests, and my post was deleted.
Actually it's' the number of positive tests that a... (show quote)


Once again an intelligent and thought provoking post, I am guessing positive V***s Test would indicate V***s and Antibodies in the Blood indicating an infected person, where a positive Antibody Test would indicate Antibodies but no V***s in the Blood indicating a Recovered Person....The President and Congress and the CDC should have taken the lead in making sure Businesses and Citizens required wearing N95 masks and using hand sanitizer which we should have had stockpiled anticipating a P******c....Also Social Distancing and No Large Gatherings, if our Country's Businesses and our Country's People had worked together with the Government leading us there might not even had been a need for any shut down, alleviating most of the economic Hardship Businesses and Laid Off Employees Suffered....Also taking extra precautions for Folks in Nursing Homes and At Risk Folks living in their own Homes taking Extra Precautions....

This is easy to say as an Armchair Quarterback, but these Highly Paid and Supposedly Highly Intelligent Politicians, Doctors, Scientists and Bureaucrats have known about a possible P******c...If I were in a Business and these were my Employees, I would fire Trump, the Democrats and Republicans in Congress, F***i, the CDC, the NIH, the WHO, the Chinese Government, and anyone else who totally failed and was and is responsible for this P******c...
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