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Nov 28, 2014 12:20:41   #
amfoto1 wrote:
Regarding IR filters....

IR filters are not built into the camera.

I suspect these are what the previous response was referring to.... There is a UV filter built into digital cameras, in most cases. And to do some types of IR photography, the filter over the camera sensor is removed or replaced.

But IR filtration is a whole different thing than UV, giving other-worldly effects in images. Take some time and study IR photography because it often involves a combination of camera modification, filtration and post-processing. There are also some ways to simulate it with post-processing. There are different methods and filters, depending upon the "look" you want in your images.

I saw a recent post about using an IR filter to cut through haze... don't know a lot about that.

Again, I suggest you research IR photography, if that's your interest. It's fairly specialized, there are several different "looks", and different methods are used to achieve them. For more info, you might want to check out:

http://www.lifepixel.com/?gclid=CICzwfSbm8ICFQeVfgoduq8Aig

Those guys do the camera conversions (NFI) and have a good, informational website.

Filters for black & white...

If your intent is simply to make black and white images (not the IR "look" ), you really don't need filters for that at all. We used to use orange, red, yellow, green filters with B&W film... but with digital they are unnecessary, as you can more effectively apply filtration in post-processing.

Color correction and color conversion filters are another type we used a lot for film, but are also pretty much unnecessary today, too, with digital. I'm more likely to put a filter over a flash, to make it better match other light it's mixed with, than to use any of the dozens of different CC filters on my camera.

ND filters...

FYI an ND 0.3 filter cuts one stop and an ND 0.9 cuts three stops.

Uses for ND filters vary, but usually are to allow using slower shutter speeds and/or larger apertures for brighter daytime shots... such as when you want to blur moving water or are looking for a shallow depth of field effect. It's usually less necessary to have fine control of this, partial or single stop filters are often most useful for videography, where there is less latitude in shutter speeds.

If this is what you are wanting to do, I'd recommend starting with a 6-stop or 8-stop ND filter. This will usually put you in a useful range for still photos, that can be fine tuned with the ISO, shutter speed and aperture.

A use for a weaker ND filter is to deepen the blue of the sky and make clouds "pop" when shooting with an ultrawide lens, that would see uneven effect if a polarizing filter were used. Speaking of which...

Circular polarizing filter...

... is arguably the single most useful type of filter for digital photography. While many other types of filters can be closely emulated in post-processing, many of the effects of a C-Pol cannot.

There are linear and circular polarizers. Autofocus cameras in general require the circular type (linear will interfere with the autofocus).

C-Pols are used to darken the sky in scenic shots, reduce reflections off water, glass, etc., increase saturation and contrast, and more.

Graduated ND filters...

Are partially gray and partially clear. This type of filter is used to balance brighter sky with foreground, and similar. Usually one, two or three stops, it's usually best to use the rectangular type that slide into a holder mounted on the front of the lens. This allows you to move the gradation around as needed, to match with where you need the effect in the image. (Screw-in ND Grads force you to position the horizon in the center of every image... not a good thing.)

Frankly, I have a nice set of ND Grads that are pretty much just gathering dust. I can do as good or better job in post-processing, combining two shots made at different exposures, or with double-processing of a single RAW file. This works better than a filter because I can use layers and masks to make the effect exactly match my image.

Also, many post-processing softwares have graduated filter effects available, which can be pretty effective.

There are many good filter brands. Personally I use some B+W, Hoya, Lee, Kenko and a few Cokin. I probably have some others I'm forgetting. Marumi is another brand I've heard good things about recently.

Nearly all manufacturers make different grades of filters, offered at various price ranges. For example, last time I looked Hoya had five or six different grades of C-Pol and B+W offered four or five.

Look for high quality glass and especially for multi-coating. This is important as it will minimize loss of image quality, and keep flare from occurring, as best possible.

Some filters use brass mounting frames, to minimize binding in the filter threads on some lenses. However, many lenses today use plastic filter threads (most Canon do), that are less prone to binding already.

Also look for thin mounting frames. There are special, thin ones to prevent vignetting on ultrawide lenses, but they cost a lot more and some don't have front threads (so you can't stack another filter on top and they need a special lens cap, if you leave them on your lens).

I've found slim filters unnecessary even on my widest lenses, by using C-Pols (which are two layer filters and thicker than most) from B+W, whose standard frames are pretty darned thin. These also are brass mounted... and I use their MRC multi-coated and Kaƫsemann MRC C-Pols, which are among their very best (they now have one grade higher "MRC Nano", with enhanced multi-coatings... more scratch resistant and easier to clean).

Most quality filters in even the largest sizes really aren't all that expensive... and we need so few today with digital... that I don't think it makes sense to buy cheap and poor quality. Remember, every shot you make through that filter will be effected by it... that can be a good thing, or a bad thing.

I am not a fan of step-up ring adapters either, allowing using oversize filters on a lens. I used to use these with film cameras, because I had literally dozens of filters and it was cost prohibitive to buy all of them in all the different sizes. However, with today's digital you really only need a few filters, so I buy them in all the sizes I need. (I also consider filter sizes when I buy a lens, preferring to keep to a few common sizes whenever I can.)

One key reason I don't like step-up or step-down rings is because they make it difficult or impossible to use a proper lens hood. I always use a hood... and it's even more important to use one when also using a filter. By using the "correct" size filter, the proper lens hood is also usable.

You might be able to be a bit selective about sizes... For example I use a C-Pol a lot more often on wide angle lenses, than on telephotos. So if I were buying today, I'd get the size to fit my wider lenses first.
b Regarding IR filters.... /b br br IR filters ... (show quote)


Thank you very much. This is a great summary, sort of includes a lot of what some others have said but in more detail, which I appreciate (like to have the "why do you say that" rather than just "do this because I said so".
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Nov 27, 2014 08:30:19   #
f8lee wrote:
An IR filter is not required for haze reduction because, for one thing, haze is the result of higher frequency light waves (thus more towards UV).

Digital cameras have an IR filter (of sorts) built into them because the imaging chip in its native state is particularly sensitive to IR wavelengths of light - thus the manufacturer has an IR cutoff filter layered over the CCD or CMOS chip to enable human-visible light to get through more cleanly. When you send your DSLR in to "convert" it to an IR camera, they service removes this filter thus enabling the chip to "see" those frequencies.

An IR filter that screws onto the front of your lens (like an UV or CP filter does) is one that only allows IR wavelengths through (thus it appearing pretty much black to our eyes - since we do not see those wavelengths). Using one of these on a non-converted DSLR will approximate the effect of making the (permanent) conversion described above, though of course it will require longer exposures since the IR cutoff filter on the chip will be removing much of the IR light passing through the filter on the lens.

In any case, IR photography (film as well) is "black and white" because IR light is outside the band of wavelengths we can see - from the shorter wavelengths that are deep purple to the longest bands that are red - IR are even longer wavelengths that fall outside of the entire RGB rainbow concept altogether. There was a technique in film days of generating "false color" in IR shots, pretty much by assigning different visible colors to different wavelengths in the IR band, but of course those colors have nothing to do with what we normally perceive.

IR shots of nature scenes show the leaves of trees (that we see s green) as being bright or all white since those leaves reflect most of the IR wavelength light that falls on them.
An IR filter is not required for haze reduction be... (show quote)


Kodak had a problem at one time in the old color negative film days where one of their emulsion sensitizing dyes (the one that was red light sensitive for use in the cyan layer) didn't cut off sharply enough and so was too IR sensitive. It really messed up things, took them a short while to realize why images were seeing more "red" than the eye was seeing.

I understand what you are saying. The new info was the filtration coating on the sensor... thank you for that especially. It all makes sense to me now. I too was having a problem with the "haze" statement someone else had mentioned in another thread. Perhaps they were referring to the fact that the resulting BW image appears to be less hazy. So you've cleared up that one as well... thanks again.
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Nov 26, 2014 20:44:05   #
OldNotMold wrote:
I did a little research and found that the IR filter will produce some interesting B+W-like images since it doesn't transmit visible radiation. Perhaps the other person's comment about haze reduction was true but for a different mechanism that a UV filter. I think that I have my answer. Thanks.


... than a UV filter.
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Nov 26, 2014 20:43:17   #
OldNotMold wrote:
I'm familiar with UV filters. I was specifically wondering about IR filters. I believe that they can also be useful for creating some special B+W effects.


I did a little research and found that the IR filter will produce some interesting B+W-like images since it doesn't transmit visible radiation. Perhaps the other person's comment about haze reduction was true but for a different mechanism that a UV filter. I think that I have my answer. Thanks.
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Nov 26, 2014 20:31:45   #
dlmorris wrote:
You don't need an IR filter. That's built into the camera.


What do you mean by "That's built into the camera"?
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Nov 26, 2014 20:29:54   #
krl48 wrote:
You mention haze reduction. Are you perhaps thinking of UV (ultra violet) filters, which were often used in film photography for haze reduction?


I'm familiar with UV filters. I was specifically wondering about IR filters. I believe that they can also be useful for creating some special B+W effects.
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Nov 26, 2014 20:23:39   #
In a previous post that probably contained too many questions, my bad, one of the responders (on topic of filter selection) mentioned that there was no need for an IR filter for haze reduction or presumably any other reason. The responder said that the camera already does this. I'm not sure if he/she meant that modern camera lenses filter IR radiation as a function of their construction (glass, coatings) or if there is some magic in the camera(s) that does this. I'd like to know if IR filters are available and useful for in-camera haze reduction or other effects or not. Your thoughts please. You have provided great advice in the past, and I'm sure you will again. Thanks.
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Nov 26, 2014 13:49:00   #
camerapapi wrote:
Consider that any surface placed on the front of your lens will bear on the performance of the lens. Using a filter could cost you quality in your images.
Today photographic filters are better than ever but try to buy the best that you can afford. Hoya makes excellent filters and the big brands like Lee, Sing Ray and others make excellent but expensive filters.
My advise to you is do not use a filter unless it is absolutely necessary but if you have to use one make sure you are using the best that you can afford.
Consider that any surface placed on the front of y... (show quote)


Thanks for your great advice... and to all others as well for their's. I appreciate that there is truth in the "you get what you pay for". I will try to get the best that I can afford. One responder mentioned that he/she tries not to stack filters. But isn't it OK to stack say a 0.3 and 0.9 ND's to get that extra stop, or does one really need to get the 1.2 ND? Second other question: Another responder noted that there is no need for an IR filter to "clear" haze since it (IR filter) is built into the camera. How so? I have Canon 60D currently, perhaps upgrading to 7DII. I've played around in PP with contrast etc. to reduce haze, but is there an advantage to an IR filter? Is it really there in the camera only because of the optic path, that is, natural filtration of IR due to the glass/optics being used in today's lenses, etc.? Thanks again... all advice much appreciated.
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Nov 25, 2014 09:31:02   #
I am a fairly new photo hobbyist and have Canon camera and lenses, not that it makes much difference to this question. I would like to acquire a set of filters, especially neutral density filters to modify shutter speed in certain situations, for example, to capture flowing water in a stream with stationary foilage, etc. I might also like to have color-of-light modifying filters as well, for example, an IR filter to cut haze and produce B+W images.

Now to the real question: Since I am a hobbyist only, I would like to get good quality items but not break the bank like a professional or semi-professional might be able to justify. I don't want junk, but justifying high $ might be tough based on expected use. I know that you "get what you pay for", but are there "happy medium" suggestions?
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Oct 17, 2014 20:48:24   #
Great reply, lots of useful info. One question that I have for you and at least one other respondent is about the use of lens extenders. I thought that these were not compatible with crop sensor cameras. Did I miss something?
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Oct 16, 2014 10:25:10   #
I'm fairly new to hobby photography (a couple of years). I have a Canon 60D with EF-S 17-55, Canon 18-200 EF-S (kit lens), and Canon EF 70-300 tele (also bought as part of the deal offered by Canon at the time). I'm thinking about upgrading camera and lenses as $$ permits sometime in next year. I recognize that both camera and lens quality impact the results one gets (as well as technique... I know, I know). I am quite intrigued by the 7DMII, in part because I really like the 17-55 mm EF-S lens I have, and it could be used on a new crop sensor camera. I've seen the 7DMII touted as being a good action camera. I recognize that a FF camera might be superior for landscapes if one wants to make a large print (not sure I'll get that far but maybe). What are your thoughts on the 7DMII for action (sports-grandchildren) as well as landscape shots, 8x10, 11x14, larger? I've seen it touted as being a good action/sports option, but maybe not so good for landscapes because of the crop sensor? Also what about quality of Tamron or Sigma lenses. Any thoughts on Canon versus these off-brands for performance and durability? Thanks in advance for your good advice... appreciated.
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