OldNotMold Loc: Just North of

I'm fairly new to hobby photography (a couple of years). I have a Canon 60D with EF-S 17-55, Canon 18-200 EF-S (kit lens), and Canon EF 70-300 tele (also bought as part of the deal offered by Canon at the time). I'm thinking about upgrading camera and lenses as $$ permits sometime in next year. I recognize that both camera and lens quality impact the results one gets (as well as technique... I know, I know). I am quite intrigued by the 7DMII, in part because I really like the 17-55 mm EF-S lens I have, and it could be used on a new crop sensor camera. I've seen the 7DMII touted as being a good action camera. I recognize that a FF camera might be superior for landscapes if one wants to make a large print (not sure I'll get that far but maybe). What are your thoughts on the 7DMII for action (sports-grandchildren) as well as landscape shots, 8x10, 11x14, larger? I've seen it touted as being a good action/sports option, but maybe not so good for landscapes because of the crop sensor? Also what about quality of Tamron or Sigma lenses. Any thoughts on Canon versus these off-brands for performance and durability? Thanks in advance for your good advice... appreciated.

amehta Loc: Boston

While there have been only a few hands-on reviews of the 7D Mark II, and they are not particularly thorough, there is every reason to expect that it would serve your needs very well.

Bob Yankle Loc: Burlington, NC

The Canon 10-18mm EF-S lens married to a Canon 7D MK II would give you just about all the landscape capability of a FF camera (whose equivalent 16-35mm f/2.8L II has the same range). The electronics of the camera are certainly up to it, and is reputed to have a better low-light tolerance.

jrb1213 Loc: McDonough GEorgia

I agree with Bob. Another general note is the new 7D Mark II will take an image of anything you point it at, just like the old 7D that I have.
I do wildlife, macro, sports, portraits, landscapes, and cityscapes with the 7D mark II. Will I buy the new 7D? Already prepurchased. Why? Everything is improved about it, what thrilled me the most is the noise reduction, and the focusing system.
My first high quality lens was the 100mm EF 2.8 L IS Macro. I used it for macro and grandchild. The second upgraded lens was the Sigma 150-500. Birds in flight and sports. The next was a 24-70 F4L, on a cropped sensor this is a great range for portraits. The last two to finish my collection will be 70-200 f4 and a 300 f4 L IS plus a 1.4x.

amehta Loc: Boston

I believe the 7D Mark II will have better low-light performance than the 7D, but I do not think it will be better than the best low-light full frame cameras.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

The 7DII sounds as if it will be a great sports/action camera... after the "new model" dust settles a little, I will be getting two of them to replace my pair of five year old 7D, which have been excellent cameras but now have over 100,000 clicks apiece on them. I use them mostly for sports/action (and have a 5DII full frame camera for more sedate subjects).

That said, based upon your description I think 7DII might be overkill for your purposes. Your 60D... or perhaps an upgrade to a 70D... sounds perfect for your needs and is quite capable for action/sports shooting.

I would highly recommend putting your money into lenses, instead.

First, keep your EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS USM. It's an excellent lens.

Now, get a wide angle for landscape shots... I would suggest the Canon EF-S 10-22mm USM as one of the best in its category. (the entry level 10-18mm STM IS is a bargain at about half the cost, but more lightly built, has less range and isn't quite as sharp from edge-to-edge. Personally I won't be trading in my 10-22mm!). A 10-22mm costs $600, plus another $25 or so for the separately sold lens hood. (There's a $50 rebate on the lens, right now.)

Next, trade up from your two longer lenses for something better. The EF-S 18-200mm is okay, but doesn't have USM focus, so will not be particularly good for sports/action.

There have been several 70-300 and 75-300 lenses... not sure which one you have. Hopefully not the 75-300 that's often sold in kits with cameras (or separately for $200 or less) and is one of Canon's least successful lenses. The more expensive 70-300 IS USM is a pretty decent lens (while the premium 70-300L and more compact 70-300 DO are truly excellent... but far, far more expensive at $1450 and $1400 respectively).

I'd recommend a 70-200mm. There are several good ones to choose among. Canon offers two with IS, which I'd highly recommend. The 70-200/4L IS USM is lighter, more compact and more affordable (tho not "cheap" by any means). This lens doesn't come with a tripod mounting ring... it's sold separately (Canon's costs about $150, but there are 3rd party clones available for around $50 that seem fine). The f4 version of the lens will set you back about $1300 typically (less a $150 rebate right now).

Alternative is the 70-200/2.8L IS USM Mark II... bigger, heavier, comes with a tripod ring and is the latest and greatest of the line-up... but it's expensive: about $2200 ($100 rebate until October 25). If you could find a good one lightly used, the original 70-200/2.8L IS USM is also a very good lens selling for around $1500, more or less depending upon condition.

The reason I recommend these lenses is that they are tops for sports photography... or just about anything else. The two models I recommend both use fluorite elements and are capable of making images sharp enough to make your eyes bleed. USM focus drive is far faster acquiring and better tracking moving subjects. Combined with your 60D... or perhaps a 70D... you will have little trouble keeping up with most sports situations.

If you find you miss the 300mm you enjoy now, both these 70-200s can be used with 1.4X teleconverters. The Canon EF 1.4X III is rather pricey at about $450, but the 1.4X II is almost as good in nearly all respects and can be found lightly used for around $250 typically. There is not enough difference between them that I've bothered to upgrade from my II versions of 1.4X and 2X. I haven't used them, but purportedly the Kenko Pro 300 1.4X DG and DGX teleconverters rival the Canon for quality (and currently sell for $250 new). The $150 Kenko MC-4 1.4X DGX is also quite good for the money... may even be sharper in the center of the image, though not as sharp at the edges and corners.

Personally I use a Canon EF 300/4 IS USM a lot, when I need a longer lens. It is very portable and hand-holdable, plus works quite well with a quality 1.4X teleconverter if needed. I bought mine use (practically unused, actually) for $900. Normally it sells for $1450 (there's a $100 rebate, right now).

Alternatively, the Canon EF 100-400L IS USM that costs around $1700 (currently a $200 rebate) is a popular sports/action zoom giving up to double the reach of a 70-200. At the long end, it's an f5.6 lens. That's fine in reasonable light, but may be a problem in low light conditions. It's also slightly bigger than a 70-200/2.8. It's a push/pull zoom design... unusual among today's lenses. Folks either really love or really, really hate this design of zoom, it seems. Hard to say without trying it. I didn't like them in the past because I found it hard to get a steady shot with a push/pull zoom... but to be fair, this lens has IS which should help a lot.

I use a few third party lenses, but mostly stick with Canon OEM simply because they generally are the best in their class and are very full featured. Plus, Canon lenses are more likely to be both backward compatible with my old film Canons and future-proof for Canon DSLRs I might buy in the future. I tend to only look at 3rd party lenses when they offer something that just doesn't exist in the Canon line-up. But those are pretty few and far between, since Canon has the largest system of lenses of any manufacturer.

Yes, a full frame camera might be nice for landscapes, thanks to their potential for great detail in images and enlargeability of their image files (I use a 5D Mark II, personally)... Also, they are better able to handler low light situations, thanks to lower image noise (which you didn't mention as a concern.... besides you should be able to use 60D to ISO 1600 easily, or 3200 and even 6400 with a little more care and work).

Most of the time and with reasonably good technique, 18 and 20MP crop sensor cameras can produce excellent landscapes printable up to around 16x20 or 18x24". However, if you have occasional need for extreme detail and enlargeability, there's a simple trick you can do with a crop sensor camera. Turn it to the vertical/portrait orientation and take three or more shots, then combine them later using a panorama software. In fact, there's a process called Gigapan that can use virtually any camera to make as many as 500 shots and later combine them into one massive image (often more than a gigabyte in size), that has almost unlimited detail. This is done using a computerized, robotic tripod head that insures all the images are neatly aligned. The whole process is based upon NASA exploratory photo techniques. Pretty cool... more info at: http://gigapan.com/

Anyway, if I were you I wouldn't necessarily spend the $1800 for a 7DII. Either keep the camera you've got, or upgrade to a 70D instead. Then put the money saved into an EF-S 10-22mm USM and the EF 70-200mm IS USM of your choice (f4 or f2.8), selling off the 18-200mm and 70-300mm lenses you currently have. If you wish, add a 1.4X teleconverter.

If you don't already have them, also get lens hoods for all your lenses (L-series such as the 70-200s include the hood). A properly fitted lens hood is one of the least expensive ways to both improve your images and give some reasonable protection to your lenses against accidental bumps.

Also, if you don't already have one, get a very high quality 77mm circular polarizing filter, such as the B+W Kaësemann ($135) or Hoya HD2 ($185). This will be a very useful filter for landscape shots in particular, and will fit both the 10-22mm and 17-55mm lenses. (It also will fit 100-400, EF 300/4 and 70-200/2.8 lenses. But not 70-200/4 that uses a 67mm filter instead. But, frankly, it's generally less necessary to use C-Pol on a telephoto lens, than on a wide to standard/short tele.)

Finally, for landscape photography a good, stable tripod is highly recommended. Yes, it allows you to use lower shutter speeds and all... but one of its biggest benefits is that a tripod makes you slow down and think about the shot you're about to take, often making for better results.

worldguy03

The 70D II is revolutionary. It will probably be "Camera of the Year". You name the publication. It is blowing the Digital SSLR world away and unless you are willing to pay $5000--$7000 for a top end Pro camera, it's the answer.
You're a relative newbie--right? Buy it and grow with it. Sure, it's always a good idea to put the $$$$$$ into lenses. Do both. Most of all--learn how to shoot and perfect your talents with the latest & greatest. Should keep you happy for the next 3-5 years until Canon comes up with the 7D III !!!!!!!!!!!!
I was at Bolsa Chica shooting birds this morning with about 15 other experienced photographers.The action was fantastic. You'd be impressed with the equipment that everyone had--top end bodies & big glass. At least 4 of the shooters have pre-ordered the 7D II. I just bought (in April) a 70D. Love it, but I'm going to sell it and am not hesitating to get the 7D Ii.

OldNotMold Loc: Just North of

Great reply, lots of useful info. One question that I have for you and at least one other respondent is about the use of lens extenders. I thought that these were not compatible with crop sensor cameras. Did I miss something?

worldguy03

From what I've heard, the 7D II actually will auto focus with them when others did not. For instance if you had a Canon 100-400 you could get it to AF with a 1.4 extender. A real +. Confirm that with another source just to be sure.

birdpix Loc: South East Pennsylvania

That is correct, the 7D MkII is an f/8 AF capable body. That means that it will autofocus with any compatible lens/extender combination that does not exceed f/8 maximum aperture, albeit using only the center focal points.
http://usa.canon.com/CUSA/assets/app/pdf/brochures/EOS_7D_Mark_II_AF_guide_CUSA_9-2014.pdf for more info on the AF system.
See:

birdpix Loc: South East Pennsylvania

amphoto1 has given you great advice. Put your money into lenses and learn to use what you have to its limits. I have pre-ordered the MkII but, then again, I find myself constantly pushing the limits of what the MkI is capable of. Of course, if money is no object, then, go for it!

amehta Loc: Boston

Using lens extenders (teleconverters) does not depend on the sensor size. Physically, it depends on the lens, whether it has an element which will contact the glass of the teleconverter. For autofocus, it depends on the camera's AF system.