Thomas902 wrote:
Gene the initial OP broached a query at the start of this thread...
"Should a distinction be made between photographic creativity and PP software creativity?"
My inference here that that yes in camera creativity is indeed germane at the upper levels of Fashion and Beauty genre. And I've documented this inference.
You kind sir stated "Those that are absolutely convinced that a perfect image can be reliably obtained out of a camera are probably not earning a living or even using photography as a side hustle."
I'm calling you on this... This is only your limited take on what is going down on the commercial side of the equation. And is simply wrong...
While Beauty and Fashion are not heavily represented on UHH however I will champion commercial Beauty and Fashion genera here in as I've been intimately involved with the aforementioned for quite some time. This is not a side hustle, I hold a Cosmetology License from the State of Maryland and have actually worked in numerous Beauty Salons as well as a very brief stent at Glamour Shots doing airbrush makeup i.e. Temptu SB makeup for them.
You exist in your own reality of primarily shooting wildlife which is perfectly fine.
But please don't dismiss "Agency" work as not falling under the rubric of "creative/artistic stuff" which I personally find demeaning...
I am primarily a Bridal Makeup Artist... If you want to call that a hustle so be it...
And I am keenly focused on my craft... which btw, I consider ""creative/artistic"
The disconnect between us most likely lays in the fact you are working in a male dominated genre.
While I'm working in a genre entirely female dominated.
The precious few female commercial shooters (wedding photographers) have long since abandon UHH.
I miss them dearly...
Ok below is another example of my "creative/artistic" craft. Please don't dismiss this because you are naive to it's dominance on high end commercial work. Do yourself a favor Gene work on a production fashion and/or beauty set. Or even a Television News Broadcast. Yes I've done Male Grooming for quite a few CEO's on their companies' Promotional Videos... I swing both ways so to speak. Male/Female matters little when it comes to showcasing a "Talents" visual attributes.
Below is a High End Agency Talent who happens to live down the street from me.
She is flown all over the world to do High End Advertising work.
Please show me (and others in this thread) your "creative/artistic" visual statement Gene.
Gene the initial OP broached a query at the start ... (
show quote)
I won't attempt to change your narrow view with regards to my experience and credentials. I have always been a generalist, shooting whatever needed to be shot when asked as long as the client and myself were confident that my skills in composition, lighting and other aspects were up to snuff.
In retirement, the photography that pleases me most is avian, wildlife, landscape/cityscape/seascape, travel, sports (grandkids are now starting to play Irish football - which is different from the other "football" we all know as soccer), flowers, model trains, etc etc.
Perhaps it is the bubble you live in that prevents you from understanding the nature of my response. And while you maintain that magazine covers are not manipulated, a visit to a magazine shop will reveal that some part of 99% of the images you see on the covers have had some manipulation - even Vogue. But food magazines, guns and ammo, cars, people, all sorts of hobby publications, etc etc etc - all use software to adjust and enhance. In the most general of terms - magazines and other publications that are viewed as documentary in nature do not permit image manipulation.\
By the same token you should visit a high end real estate shoot just to see how someone handles an 8-9 figure property. There is a small battalion of stagers, cleaners, lighting specialists, prop people etc. And in post processing there are retouchers, colorists, and others involved in the process to ensure that the images are believable yet without flaws.
You certainly believe your word is gospel, and that has worked well for you it seems. But there is a world out there that you should visit every so often, that is once you get out of your ivory tower and get down from your high horse.
I don't take kindly to people who devolve to ad hominem attack when they have nothing else to offer. If I really valued your opinion I'd be very upset. Actually I am more than fine. So don't take anything I wrote personally. It's just that you and I have had widely different experiences, and we should leave it at that.
Cheers!