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Jul 20, 2019 12:51:20   #
selmslie wrote:
Since I have zero confidence that you might understand how to proceed, I did the test for you on my X100T.

I set the ISO to 800 and the aperture to f/8. I then set the DR to 100, 200 and 400. All three images ended up at 1/28 sec. This proves that DR does not affect the exposure either, only the appearance of the JPEG.


Thank you... All you have said is absolutely on target.
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Jul 20, 2019 11:50:34   #
Ysarex wrote:
Is this in response to my observation: "The equivalent to ADL is not Fuji's Highlight/Shadow picture controls but the DR setting. Used as intended it does effect the raw files."?

Are you suggesting that the Fuji DR function does not effect raw files? It does.

Joe


The main thing to think about is that it does not matter... all of the information is in the RAW file regardless. The preview or starting point adjustment has been affected true, but all of the information gets recorded with the proper exposure. That's why you choose something like "Neutral" in your RAW settings.

Its nice getting close to what you want to reduce editing time, but all can be accomplished later. That's why things like white balance are so insignificant in post processing...
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Jul 20, 2019 10:57:21   #
Ysarex wrote:
What I saw in the last post was you're misunderstanding of how your Fuji functions. The equivalent to ADL is not Fuji's Highlight/Shadow picture controls but the DR setting. Used as intended it does effect the raw files. If you like I can help you understand it better.

And again this is entirely off topic and just more smoke blowing diversion.

I said; "The problem with shooting raw + JPEG is that you can't have an optimum exposure for both." I've now proven that correct and provided supporting external references. You've failed to refute it and after repeated requests for an external reference you've provided nothing but smoke.

Joe
What I saw in the last post was you're misundersta... (show quote)


Optimum exposure, is the gathering of as much information as possible. The camera RAW file is that storage method, not the Jpeg or preview image.

Any adjustments you see on your screen or monitor, are applied to the Jpeg image ... and Yes I have a Fuji x100F so I understand Fuji RAW files.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:44:29   #
selmslie wrote:
The point here is to get a B&W image on your camera's screen as a "proof of concept" - to see what it might look like once you do the B&W conversion from raw on your computer.

In order for this to work you need to know something about your camera's ability to cope with scenes with different dynamic ranges.

Fuji cameras are a great tool for this because you can control highlight and shadow recovery separately, just as you might want to do later on your computer.

But you have to read the manual to understand how to do it effectively.
The point here is to get a B&W image on your c... (show quote)


Honestly its all about dynamic range and personal editing taste. There are so many tools including gradient mapping that will achieve much more in post processing with RAW.

Dedicated B/W Jpeg modes for consumers, especially with Fuji have merit, but It seems the default conclusion by many is based on their lack of experience.

In camera adjustments affect the Jpeg or preview image, not the RAW file data. It is funny to hear all of the misconceptions...
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Jul 20, 2019 09:16:39   #
selmslie wrote:
I'm not recommending editing a JPEG, in the camera or on your computer.

I don't think you understand the point of this thread. Please read my first two posts.


Maybe I am taking it wrong, regardless, the argument takes the same wandering path outside of what you are saying.

Some of the posts seem to be arguing that there is something to gain from a Jpeg over RAW data.

because B/W images were posted... the B/W filter set to soft light in PS makes more sense to me when editing, and forget what ever it is that seems appealing from the in camera Jpeg image.
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Jul 20, 2019 07:17:12   #
Everyone is shooting RAW data, and then choosing to process the data as a Jpeg in camera, or later on your PC.

An unprocessed preview of a RAW data file will have a flat profile and must be edited.

If you are editing a Jpeg... then the more power to you if you feel you are getting better results in some way.

No one is "shooting Jpeg" and if you believe a Jpeg has an advantage over RAW data, you need to look for the nearest AA meeting.
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Jul 19, 2019 15:17:16   #
dwermske wrote:
So my OS is converting the data to something that can be viewed. Isn't that exactly what happens when viewing a JPG or a TIFF? Different method, same results. Software converts the data a format that can be viewed! So if software converts data to a format that can be viewed what's the difference? In every case software is involved and data is converted. If a data file can be used to produce an image through software manipulation then that file is an image file regardless of what the file format is.
So my OS is converting the data to something that ... (show quote)


Rationalizing what you want to believe can be habit forming... excuse me while I go post a few RAW files on spacebook...
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Jul 19, 2019 13:28:04   #
rmalarz wrote:
You're probably viewing the embedded jpg file, which is part of almost every RAW file produced by today's cameras.
--Bob


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Jul 19, 2019 04:45:07   #
CherylRosen wrote:
I shoot in Raw and JPEG so I can instantly see what I have taken as soon as I pull it up in the computer. For many years I deleted the raw files to save space on my hard drives for non-important photos. I could just shoot myself for doing so as I now exhibit my personal work in galleries. The problem is similar between looking at artwork that is a vector vs. raster image. Vector is similar to a raw photo. It is crisp, holds its image even when enlarged, and is easily able to be manipulated. A raster image is similar to a jpeg file, in that it loses its quality when enlarged, doesn’t have the details within the file allowing it to be manipulated. Another thing about jpeg files, each time you adjust them, you eat away a bit at the file. With a raw file, it stays alone, until you save it as a jpeg.
I shoot in Raw and JPEG so I can instantly see wha... (show quote)


Your Camera shoots RAW and processes Jpeg.

You can save combinations of information with the options in your menu... your camera can convert the data into a finished Jpeg image after each shot.

You can opt not to have the camera process a Jpeg, and there are also combinations of Jpeg size, values ect. that affect the outcome.

The RAW file contains all of the ingredients to create a Jpeg image at any time with software. You have to choose that option in the camera menu.

A Jpeg is a processed and finished image that is still editable. It must be produced as an end product by the camera, or by you later with an editing program.

... the horse has been beaten severely...
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Jul 18, 2019 19:24:43   #
lamiaceae wrote:
Not sure what you are even trying to say. As stated I OPENED the OP posted RAW file and processed it through my ACR 9.1.1 and Ps CS6 and came up with an OK image, different I think that what I would have shot. Not that I even would have been done with it at that point but I did my normal work flow on it and since he has is own camera and exposure it is to me a bit over exposed. I then SAVED it via Ps as a JPG as that is what we are supposed to be posting on UHH. I posted my version of the OP's image. Not totally to my liking but that might be my point of exit as I did not want to fuss with his image beyond what I normally do with my own images. Yes, I like Bob's version better.

Normally I always shoot RAW myself but I am capable of processing pretty well JPGs too I my get from my CellPhone or just JPEGs I find on the WEB. So I am not sure why you are ragging on me when I essentially said and did the same as everyone else. You that bored?
Not sure what you are even trying to say. As stat... (show quote)


Everyone shoots RAW... No one shoots Jpeg, or produces anything out of camera.

Your camera converts the image with presets after the shot, into an edited Jpeg with your menu setup.

If you save the RAW files, then you have the option to edit the full- uncompressed data with editing software.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:59:16   #
For all who are confused from the endless posts.

https://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/understanding_digitalrawcapture.pdf
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Jul 18, 2019 17:31:35   #
rmalarz wrote:

--Bob


Yes, a Jpeg is an IMAGE FILE...

Jpeg is a completed IMAGE FILE... RAW is RAW data.

A Jpeg IMAGE FILE comes from the RAW material.

A Jpeg is not an optional or simpler form of editing data...
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Jul 18, 2019 17:06:01   #
Gene51 wrote:
Are you trying to bait the Apple Fan Club here?


That may be, lol... Amazing that the posters question was so elementary. Some of the authoritative encyclopedia's being written here on the subject are quite amazing.
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Jul 18, 2019 11:38:07   #
lamiaceae wrote:
I was able to DL your actual RAW file, a No No on the UHH. No idea what camera brand you have and don't recognize the extension. But my Ps CS6 was able to open it. You do realize you MUST process RAW files for use. Anyway, I gave your image my standard processing, so you tell me what you think. Yours is probably a well exposed image so there should not be a lot of difference between the RAW and JPG. But try and image with extreme lighting or under exposure or WB off, then you will be happy to have a Raw file.
I was able to DL your actual RAW file, a No No on ... (show quote)


Its RAW data.

So the camera processed his RAW data into a Jpeg... then you decide to edit that same Raw data he mistakenly thought was an image, into a Jpeg to compare what, two Jpegs?

If your going to edit... use the RAW data. If your not going to edit, use the Jpeg out of the camera. Of course you can edit a Jpeg, but the question was about the two being compared as images. Apples and Oranges.
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Jul 18, 2019 10:00:35   #
NCMtnMan wrote:
There isn't any real answer to which is better since one is an image file and one is a data file. The jpg was created by your camera from what was a RAW file even though your camera didn't save the RAW file. If you don't care about having full pp control of your shot, then continue to shoot jpg. However, with RAW you can have more pp control and create the jpg that you like instead of what your camera likes.


... wait a few minutes and your perfect answer will be nullified as if you said nothing, lol
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