Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

NTSB will analyze both Lion Air and Ethiopian Air FDR and Cockpit Recorders and then take appropriate action.....right now nothing says anything except what they have from the pilots. NTSB already has the Lion Air FDR and the Ethiopian Air FDR will probably be on its to DC post haste. No incidents except in third world countries. However you can bet Boeing is working day and night to see if there ARE any issues related to this new a/c

ayersrl Loc: Palm Beach Gardens,Fl

I believe that the problem has been found to be in a part of the equipment that detects and corrects for stalling. The plane thinks it is goind into a stall and tries to correct by lowering the nose to increase air speed. If the plane is at 35000 feet, no problem, plenty of time and altitude to react and correct. Problem comes when there's not enough altitude. A retired pilot said that the use of autopilot from wheels up on take off contributes to the problem. They showed how easily control could be restored, at the flick of a switch. I believe that if I was the pilot on one of these planes I would turn the auto correct for stall off until at cruising altitude.

Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

Is that what the FDR and voice recorders found?

alberio Loc: Casa Grande AZ

The Widow

Bmarsh Loc: Bellaire, MI

Boeing added some software to their MAX which feeds in down trim based on airspeed and attitude. The change was made due a difference in engine weight on the MAX. But they DID NOT put the information in their manuals or train the crew how to handle problems due to the new system. And if a sensor like airspeed is faulty, the software can put in downward trim that the pilot is not suspecting.

Expect Boeing to take a BIG HIT on this one.

Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area

A few years ago Malcolm Gladwell wrote a NY Times Best-Seller book called “The Outliers.” One of the studies they wrote for the book was about all the crashes that were occurring on Korean Airlines. In fact, it was so bad that the Korean government was considering shutting down the airline.

Turns out, it had nothing to do with the mechanical failures of the airplanes. It had nothing to do with the training of the pilots. The problem was ... it had to do with the “culture” of Koreans!

Their culture is one of politeness, and never questioning authority. Or if so, doing it in a very indirect and polite manner. An example they wrote about was of a crash that occurred when one of their planes ran out of fuel on an approach to JFK airport. It went down about a mile before the runway.

All the planes were in a storm circling JFK, which slowed up the landing process. The Korean airlines plane was running out of fuel, but the co-pilot was intimidated by the voice of the air traffic controller, who told him to keep circling. So ... they ran out of fuel.

All the co-pilot had to do was tell the air traffic controller that they had five minutes of fuel left, and the air traffic controller would have told them to land immediately. This was determined by listening to conversations on the black box, and then follow up conversations with Korean airline flight crews.

So, the solution to the crashes for Korean airlines had to do with the crew in the cockpit being more assertive with one another when issues were arising. Problem solved!

I’m not suggesting this is the problem with the 737 MAX crashes. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it had to do with some form of pilot error, maybe with some training needed for this new plane from Boeing that these pilots didn’t take sufficiently? The book points out that it is EXTREMELY RARE for a commercial plane to crash due to mechanical failure. Anyway, I guess we’ll find out soon.

By the way, if you haven’t read the book go get it. The studies in it are fascinating!

Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

I won't expect anything until the NTSB has analyzed both FDR's and CVR's and provides the aviation industry with the results....

Bmarsh Loc: Bellaire, MI

Rightfully so, but it was only after the Oct crash that Boeing revealed the additional “feature”.

From an article about the Lion Air crash:

One of the victims' family are suing Boeing, and accuse the aircraft manufacturer of failing to inform the pilots of the new anti-stalling feature on its 737 Max plane system that could "push the nose down unexpectedly".

Boeing has said that "the 737 Max is as safe as any airplane that has ever flown in the skies" and that "the appropriate procedure to address unintended horizontal stabiliser movement" is contained in the relevant flight manuals.

The correct procedures appeared to have been followed in the Denpasar flight before the crash, it said.

However, Nurcahyo Utomo told the BBC: "We haven't found the information in the manual relevant to the new feature to the 737- MAX, related to the feature for the stall prevention system."

If the automatic system kicked in and "the pilot didn't know what was happening", there was a risk it would confuse the pilots, he added.

Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

Possibly but considering there are thousands and thousands more MAX 8 hours flown by American and EU carriers than third world carriers like Lion Air and Ethiopia Air, and yet not one incident reported.....Lion Air also had maintenance issues with their a/c, supposedly fixed prior to the crash. The AP on/off switch is so easy to actuate whether on the sick or console. PE could be the problem or a software glitch along with lack of training and experience. Just have to wait & see the FDR results.

Bmarsh Loc: Bellaire, MI

Not sure the new “feechur” is part of the AP. The AP would be the first thing I would turn off when control issues arrive... But with many airlines grounding the MAX, it must be more than your typical maintenance issue.

tommystrat Loc: Bigfork, Montana

That's one of the biggest problems our society faces today - not one person has all the facts concerning these horrific accidents, but everyone "knows" what caused them. They then espouse their pet theories and start caustic arguments about who is "right" when they have no basis in fact for anything they are arguing.

The fundamental premise of investigations of this type is, "No coincidences, no speculation - just evidence." And collecting this evidence will take time - lots of it...

Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast

Having all the facts? That would eliminate the news media from publishing anything until days after the fact. We do know the media today is not really interested in facts, just getting a story out. They are as bad at hyping this tragedy (coincidence) as anyone

However the Lion Air FDR and CVR are at the NTSB in DC right now, NTSB reps are on scene with the Ethiopian FDR & CVR available to them.....now just awaiting the results

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

The first crash was Indonesian, the second one was Ethiopian. Those two cultures have no relationship to Korean Culture. I remember when Malcolm Gladwell was promoting his book on TV News, Outliers . He also said that it takes 10 years to be completely competent to do your job in your workplace. I would categorize that as experience. But, not taking that long, to be be competent on your job.

Los-Angeles-Shooter Loc: Los Angeles

If it was caused by terrorists, it is logical that they would target American-made aircraft rather than the profoundly inferior Airbus. The hysterical reaction, even before the cause is figured out, is exactly what jihadists would hope for.

AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio

I read this also, and it seems to be the problem. The information about this system has been transmitted to U.S. pilots but a lot of pilots in places where airlines like Lions and Ethiopia haven't been informed about this system from their higher ups or haven't taken the time to read the latest info.