photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN

Conviction and faith. On the other hand, I'm betting my eternal life that the odds are great in my favor.

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

Exactly what hallucinogenics are you on? What does living in California or Los Angeles have to do with what I wrote? As the young-uns say, WTF???

bvm Loc: Glendale, Arizona

Read your whole diatribe on what you said WTF fits you well!

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

Try looking up the word diatribe, you'll see you that my posting was far from a diatribe. I was giving a hypothetical situation and asking people for input as to how they felt it would be handled. Your response was totally unrelated to anything I was talking about.

bvm Loc: Glendale, Arizona

are you sure you don't mean tschmeth ?????

dtcracer

I personally, would rather believe in God, and be wrong, than to not believe in God, and learn at that time that I was wrong in time to spend eternitiy in Hell.

dtcracer

The New Testament teaches that you do not come to God by works, but through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour. Once you accept Jesus, obeying God and doing what God expects out of you comes naturally. The bible states that in the latter days there will be people who preach in the name of God, and perform miracles in the name of God, but are not believers in God and therefore are shut out of heaven. If you turn your back on God, He will turn his back on you.

dtcracer

I agree with you. If you bet your eternal life on there being a God, and your right you win. If you bet your eternal life on there being a God, and your wrong, then what do you lose? It is a win-win situation.

tschmath Loc: Los Angeles

So believing in a God is just to make the odds better? That makes absolutely no sense. And don't you think an all-knowing God would see through that sham?

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

That's fine for you. But that doesn't give you the right to impose your beliefs (or odds-playing) on others who don't share those beliefs.

photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN

RMM, There goes that lame Athiest logic again. No one imposes their beliefs on you! You either listen to (or read) or you don't. No one forces you to divulge dear sir. That's the beauty of having the god given inalienable right to the freedom of speech and religion. In fact, The Constitution of These United States of America guarantees my RIGHT to impose my beliefs on anyone I wish. If you are truly a man without God, then why would you be so worried about what others believe. That said; you also have the right to ignore me.

And my dear friend tschmath, my convictions are my convictions. They have nothing to do with the odds. But, I do believe in my heart of hearts that the odds are heavily in my favor. We really do need to become neighbors so we can debate these things across the fence, or from the dock with a fishing pole and a beer. I'm not moving to the left coast though, sorry.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

So quick to come out with the Atheist label, which I suppose sits on the shelf right next to the Liberal label.

My religious beliefs are my personal business. You choose to express yours publicly, which is fine, and I do not, which is also fine.

You assert that the Constitution guarantees you the RIGHT to impose your beliefs on anyone you wish. I'd certainly appreciate your citing chapter and verse for that one!

If I misunderstood you, accept my apology in advance.

photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN

My beautiful bride has filled all my shelves with her stuff, so, none of my labels are there sir. I have to dig for them.

No sir, you didn't misunderstand me at all. And my apologies to you for assuming you were an athiest. I think that anyone reading your statement would come to the same conclusion. What I find funny about that though, whether Christian or Athiest, why hide what you truly believe? I say 'shout it from the mountain tops'!

My sister in law does that. She's a devout Athiest, but doesn't want her parents to find out. She'll even go to church and act like she's praying if her mother or grandmother ask her to go. Odd.

The original constitution was written in haste as they needed to ratify something soon. After winning our freedom from Great Britain, they needed to have something solid, quick.

During the debates on the adoption of the Constitution, its opponents repeatedly charged that the Constitution as drafted would open the way to tyranny by the central government. Fresh in their minds was the memory of the British violation of civil rights before and during the Revolution. They demanded a "bill of rights" that would spell out the immunities of individual citizens. Several state conventions in their formal ratification of the Constitution asked for such amendments; others ratified the Constitution with the understanding that the amendments would be offered.

On September 25, 1789, the First Congress of the United States therefore proposed to the state legislatures 12 amendments to the Constitution that met arguments most frequently advanced against it. The first two proposed amendments, which concerned the number of constituents for each Representative and the compensation of Congressmen, were not ratified. Articles 3 to 12, however, ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures, constitute the first 10 amendments of the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights.

Although the first amendment does not say word for word, what I had blabbered off earlier, in plain speak as suggested by Jefferson, Adams and Franklin, they wrote:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or PROHIBITING the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

More or less stating that I can SAY anything to ANYONE. So, my right to my religion and free speech, granted to me by God, and guaranteed to me IN WRITING, by our founding fathers, although not spelled out word for word, does include my freedom to discuss my religious beliefs wherever and whenever I wish. This also does grant you your right to not listen, not exactly word for word, but nevertheless, it does. Without fear of legal actions or a little ol' beheading even.

RMM Loc: Suburban New York

And I absolutely agree that you are free to express your beliefs, religious or otherwise. Within reason, you are free to practice them at home, in your house of worship, on a soap box in a public park (within reason rules out some odds and ends such as human sacrifice.) Where the courts have established some boundaries is in public schools and at governmental functions. They haven't been altogether consistent, but the general approach is that, for example, prayer in a public school tends to put those of other beliefs (or non-beliefs) at a disadvantage.

As far as that goes, given the different beliefs even among Christian sects (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Mormon, etc.), it almost becomes meaningless in a broad public sense. Just which flavor of God is everybody praying to? If everyone is saying the same words together, but interpreting them differently, what meaning is there? Do the Catholic, the Muslim and the Jew in the audience have the same meaning in mind? What about the atheist, or the poor agnostic who can't even make up his or her mind?

photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN

Another debate entirely. The phrase "separation of church and state" was not in this document, but some, without ever reading it, have assumed it to be so. In a response to a letter from the Danbury Church Jefferson used this phrase, later questioning himself and in his personal journals writing that the first amendment was never intended to keep God out of the government, but to keep the gov't out of God. Prayer in school should have never have been banned. How does allowing the freedom of religion in school put any student at a disadvantage? You pray to your creator, whomever you believe them to be. If you choose to not believe, then please just be courteous to those that do. They will afford you the same respect in return. The Commandments removed from court houses was uncalled for. However, when the courts make their decisions, it is normally based on their interpretation of the exact words, "congress shall make no law establishing . . .", hence the law suits. In the end, if you've ever read the personal writings of Franklin or Jefferson, you will find that our founders wishes were that we practice whatever religion we choose, without worry of retribution from our gov't., ie: the King that they had just recently proclaimed their freedom.

That said; in the spirit of what I mentioned earlier in reference to your right to ignore. If you are offended when you see the Commandments in a public place, avert your eyes. It's a much easier road then getting the lawyers involved. If the Jehovah's Witness comes a knockin', say "no thanks", and close your front door. If you hear me say "so help me God" while taking an oath, or "under God" while reciting the pledge. Ignore me please. It's not really worth the busted nose for trying to stifle me. Using common sense is really the best option.

Whatever your beliefs, I will always respect them and how you communicate them is your choice, as is mine. All I ask is that you grant me the same courtesy as I would you.

On that note; we got way off the original post again, didn't we? Grrr! Sorry folks. Also please ignore my uneducated writing. Spelling should be o.k. but my grammar is probably substandard.