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GOP Platform Plans Constitutional amendment prohibiting Abortions, No exception for incest or Rape
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Aug 23, 2012 23:40:06   #
photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
docrob wrote:
photosbysexton wrote:
I also think that we should make it fair. How about we allow that child to abort the parents when they reach a certain age? You libs are all about fairness, right?


Children can petition the court for emancipation from their parents.


Not the same. Sorry.

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Aug 24, 2012 00:04:37   #
docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado
 
[quote=photosbysexton]If you wish to live a life of lies, that's your choice. But an honorable adult teaches their children about life through honest, open discussion of their past and their mistakes. Knowledge comes from learning from your mistakes, wisdom comes from learning from others and theirs.

You are quick to judge too, I see. You start your post by judging my character based on a question I asked then proceed to speak condescendingly as if you know what the truth is.

Yes, often times there is knowledge to be gleaned from one's mistakes provided that the mistake isn't fatal. And sometimes things just happen which no body planned. I suppose I take a more dim view of humanity's abilities to learn from our mistakes than you do. Perhaps that is because I usually have had to repeat mistakes more than once to really learn anything of use. Seems that way in photography too I guess - you know - figuring out how to meter and such. And here I see our country and our leaders making the same old same mistakes too - so yeah i guess i do believe that if the goal of human existence is to evolve we have a long long long way to go.

Wisdom, I suspect would strongly suggest there are many ways to parent and raise a healthy child - among which is surely the ability to discuss life's matters. I suspect too that wisdom springs from many sources and that the most essential wisdom is that which springs forth from one's own noble heart......others are important too

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Aug 24, 2012 00:21:55   #
photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
[quote=docrob]
photosbysexton wrote:
If you wish to live a life of lies, that's your choice. But an honorable adult teaches their children about life through honest, open discussion of their past and their mistakes. Knowledge comes from learning from your mistakes, wisdom comes from learning from others and theirs.

You are quick to judge too, I see. You start your post by judging my character based on a question I asked then proceed to speak condescendingly as if you know what the truth is.

Yes, often times there is knowledge to be gleaned from one's mistakes provided that the mistake isn't fatal. And sometimes things just happen which no body planned. I suppose I take a more dim view of humanity's abilities to learn from our mistakes than you do. Perhaps that is because I usually have had to repeat mistakes more than once to really learn anything of use. Seems that way in photography too I guess - you know - figuring out how to meter and such. And here I see our country and our leaders making the same old same mistakes too - so yeah i guess i do believe that if the goal of human existence is to evolve we have a long long long way to go.

Wisdom, I suspect would strongly suggest there are many ways to parent and raise a healthy child - among which is surely the ability to discuss life's matters. I suspect too that wisdom springs from many sources and that the most essential wisdom is that which springs forth from one's own noble heart......others are important too
If you wish to live a life of lies, that's your c... (show quote)


Did I judge? My mistake to have done this. My apologies for your perception of my statement. This was not my intention at all. On that note; 5am is going to arrive way too soon. Good night and God bless sir.

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Aug 24, 2012 00:37:54   #
bvm Loc: Glendale, Arizona
 
I have a daughter, 37 and a son 35. About 35 years ago my wife and I read a book that had some great ideas.
EXAMPLE: You make a signed contract with you child that goes like this. If you want to watch tv, your room has to be clean.
So I come home from work and their room is a mess. I walk upto the tv and turn it off. "Hey Dad what did you do that for?" "Well you signed a contract that you'd keep your room clean and its not" In 15 minutes the rooms were neat and tidy.

So what transpired was that they learned accountability and responsibility. We had many contract and they learned their word was their honor. I am their parent, not their fuzzy buddy.

It teaches them that they are responsible for the consequences of their actions. Now at 35 & 37, live in the NW, never had a problem AND THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE DECISIONS which are good for them.

You might like to try it. No abortions, no unwed mothers, no unwed fathers.

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Aug 24, 2012 00:42:01   #
gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch
 
bvm wrote:
I have a daughter, 37 and a son 35. About 35 years ago my wife and I read a book that had some great ideas.
EXAMPLE: You make a signed contract with you child that goes like this. If you want to watch tv, your room has to be clean.
So I come home from work and their room is a mess. I walk upto the tv and turn it off. "Hey Dad what did you do that for?" "Well you signed a contract that you'd keep your room clean and its not" In 15 minutes the rooms were neat and tidy.

So what transpired was that they learned accountability and responsibility. We had many contract and they learned their word was their honor. I am their parent, not their fuzzy buddy.

It teaches them that they are responsible for the consequences of their actions. Now at 35 & 37, live in the NW, never had a problem AND THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE DECISIONS which are good for them.

You might like to try it. No abortions, no unwed mothers, no unwed fathers.
I have a daughter, 37 and a son 35. About 35 years... (show quote)


Thank you raising responsible winners instead if victims.

:thumbup:

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Aug 24, 2012 00:52:09   #
bvm Loc: Glendale, Arizona
 
Thank you, it certainly beats the guilt of stupid decisions.


BY the way" Ignorance is you don't know any better - stupidity is you do know better"

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Aug 24, 2012 03:39:52   #
johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR
 
b.c. wrote:
I'm a repblican, but under no cercanstances should she have to bare the problems of what the goverment wants or the problems the church or thoses that believe the emberos life is more important that hers. As far as geting childeren to adaopte there are plents here in the US and overseas that need homes.

:x

B.C.

Wow! Not one line without a misspelling! You might want to look up the program iSpell. It allows you to spellcheck with a right click.

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Aug 24, 2012 04:19:01   #
johnr9999 Loc: Carlton, OR
 
docrob wrote:
johnr9999 wrote:
We have always held our children to higher standard than that to which we were held. We try to teach our children based on the mistakes we, or others, have made. And as far as abortion being only used by the poor child who is being punished for a moment of passion, nonsense. Abortion is commonly being used as a birth control measure. The state of birth control, if used, would obviate abortion. Rape, Incest you cry. Those I have dealt with previously. Docrob, good, bad, better are not non-existent terms, they are comparatives when applied to a specific. Even failing the use of birth control there is adoption. Most of the anti-abortion groups have lists of people that are willing to adopt. This would reduce the guilt of abortion.
We have always held our children to higher standar... (show quote)


Since I can't quote song lyrics as well as the Mule I will have to weigh in on this discussion in another way.

Wrong. Life is not a specific. It is an event and a process. Words such as "good" "bad" denote a judgment - not a comparison. A living person would be both a specific and an event / process. A zygote and a fetus may become specific but are not yet an actuality or process. It is simply a possibility. A pregnant woman is a specific and an actuality in process filled with possibility.

How many children have you birthed into this world? How many mouths have suckled on your nipples? How many abandoned kids have you brought home to love and nurture? How easy is it for men to form opinions on subjects we do not understand and then pretend to speak on behalf of some higher moral authority that allows us to judge the choices of others. How long will we continue to call upon the phallic godhead as proof of some "god-given" right to dictate our desires upon women.
quote=johnr9999 We have always held our children ... (show quote)

At least you don't have to apply logic to your statements. Life is filled with specific events in which we have to judge our decisions as good, bad or indifferent.
DocRob? Doctor of what? I don't know any M.D. or PHD of Science that would operate under the absurd conditions you dictate. You state that we can't dictate decisions to women about their bodies (even though pregnancy, in the high majority of cases, is the result of several chains of decisions, already) and yet you want to dictate what I think. Doctor of what? I would hazard a guess that I have delivered a good many more children than you, even though I have never been pregnant. I would guess that I have worked on a good many more bi-lateral amputations than you, even though this has never happened to me. I would guess that I have lifted many more patients out of wrecked vehicles than you, even though this has never happened to me.
Should I have told my oncologist she can't treat me because she has never had stage 4 colon cancer?
Doctor of what, philosophy? If so, I am sure you are familiar with the philosophers motto, "Will you have fries with that?".
I think I will join DJMills, whose wisdom and humor I have long enjoyed on this site and no longer participate with the name callers and subliterates.

Reply
Aug 24, 2012 06:49:12   #
RTR Loc: West Central Alabama
 
Well if you read it in the huffington and puffington post it must be true. Guess I will have to vote dumbocrat now :(

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Aug 24, 2012 07:39:15   #
JBTaylor Loc: In hiding again
 
[quote=photosbysexton]
BW326 wrote:
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- J.K.

Who is JK Galbraith?


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith

He was a Canadian-American economist. He was a Keynesian, an institutionalist, and a leading proponent of 20th-century American liberalism. His books on economic topics were bestsellers from the 1950s through the 2000s and he filled the role of public intellectual from the 1950s to the 1970s on matters of economics.

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Aug 24, 2012 08:11:30   #
dtcracer
 
docrob wrote:
Zenith701 wrote:
You are right about one thing. It is foolish to hope that teens will follow a path of abstinence when their own parents are cheating. I guess if we make stupid decisions we can't expect our kids to do better, so we should make it easy for them to be irresponsible without paying the consequences of their actions. No there's a plan


No, but we should not punish our children for being children nor should we punish them for being human.

You are right - we ALL make stupid decisions but not all of us are punished for them. What kind of love is it that says to a 17 yr old girl that she must now raise this child - more or less on her own - and that for her one night of passion and pleasure and the sheer joy of being young and in love she must now walk a very different path than she envisioned and she has no choice because she SINNED!

That's not loving - thats cruelty and sadism. Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.
quote=Zenith701 You are right about one thing. I... (show quote)


No, that is living with the consequences of ones actions. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. You have unprotected sex, you get pregnant. The purpose behind sex is to procreate. Humans and monkeys are the only beings that have sex for pleasure. It comes down to, if she doesn't want to get pregnant, don't have sex.

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Aug 24, 2012 08:23:30   #
dtcracer
 
photosbysexton wrote:
docrob wrote:
photosbysexton wrote:
So let's punish the unborn child for that teenagers CHOICE? Yeah. Good call.

I remember when I was young, my grandfather once told me that "you choose your parents". I imagined then a young baby sorting through photo after photo carefully deciding, "those will be my parents". Imagine the horror when that vacuum and scraper came into this temporary 9 month home 7 months early. Imagine what that baby is thinking now.

FYI, I am the product of a 15 year old girl being raped by 5 monsters just one block from home. I may not be on the same intillectual level of your precious Barry Soteros or any of your other gods, but at least I had the chance and most that know me, adore me and respect my successes.

That teenage girl isn't being punished for her choices, she is being held responsible and accountable for her actions as we all should be. You call it punishment all you want.. I will continue to believe that when you are held responsible, you are not enslaved, you are empowered.

docrob wrote:
Zenith701 wrote:
You are right about one thing. It is foolish to hope that teens will follow a path of abstinence when their own parents are cheating. I guess if we make stupid decisions we can't expect our kids to do better, so we should make it easy for them to be irresponsible without paying the consequences of their actions. No there's a plan


No, but we should not punish our children for being children nor should we punish them for being human.

You are right - we ALL make stupid decisions but not all of us are punished for them. What kind of love is it that says to a 17 yr old girl that she must now raise this child - more or less on her own - and that for her one night of passion and pleasure and the sheer joy of being young and in love she must now walk a very different path than she envisioned and she has no choice because she SINNED!

That's not loving - thats cruelty and sadism. Let him who has no sin cast the first stone.
quote=Zenith701 You are right about one thing. I... (show quote)
So let's punish the unborn child for that teenager... (show quote)


so your saying that you chose to be created via an act of violent gang rape?

Man, you got some heavy karma!

I don't know where or how Barry Soteros or any other gods entered this discussion....maybe that came through the ether?

Curious to whom those five monsters were held accountable too and for what consequences and responsibilities they were made to accept?
quote=photosbysexton So let's punish the unborn c... (show quote)


The Obama reference was meant as an example, the way some of you hold him in such high regards. "I may not be . . ."

How you became so cruel in your responses is a question for another time.

We won't get into the details, but my family is from "old" Detroit. The law never got them, but I'm positive that they are being punished through eternity.

My point on choosing my parents would have been long before the rape. Again my imagination would have seen these people as upstanding and someone worth my love and devotion. This, in spite of their behavior after I had chosen.
quote=docrob quote=photosbysexton So let's punis... (show quote)


Please overlook docrob. He preaches compassion for people who do wrong, yet he cannot practice compassion himself. This is his normal attitude toward people who do not agree with is immoral view on life. He is typical of people who believe there are no consequences for their actions in the afterlife, because he does not believe in an afterlife, therefore people should be allowed to go wild while they are alive.

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Aug 24, 2012 08:36:01   #
dtcracer
 
docrob wrote:
bvm wrote:
Whose talking about sinning. How about stupidity? Usually a female can only get pregnant 72- 96 hours a month. she didn't do it just once, she probably did it every other day or even everyday.

Where the hell did she or he think babies come from? Too bad they don't think about putting some passion into being a child, like learning how to read and spell.

What punishment? It's a consequence of being careless, This isn't the middle ages where you would probably be dead by the time you reached 30.
Whose talking about sinning. How about stupidity? ... (show quote)


beats me - i use the word "sin" as a shortcut so that I don't have to spell out it's history every time. The concept of "sin" is as out dated as the Chastity belts we used in those Middle Ages to keep girls from having fun. errr consequences.

As for your line of reasoning I agree but what I can't quite figure out is how that way of thinking squares with the Republican ideas that the way to teach kids to be smart AND responsible about sex is to tell them nothing about it. To basically try and keep them in the dark about sex and that they just need to wait!

How contradictory is that?

Cause your right - back when me and my friends were stupid studs if we happened to find a girl that would have sex with us you think we weren't doing it as much as we could as often as we could in every way we could think of doing it??? I mean come on - to not take advantage of that would be truly idiotic..............but of course you really mean that it's ok for us guys to be horndogs and slut around but any girl who would have sex every day is well.......you know Rush told us. Need I say more?
quote=bvm Whose talking about sinning. How about ... (show quote)


I do not think that it is ok for guys to be "horndogs and slut" around. I believe that if a boy is stupid enough to be a "horndog and slut around", then he should also be responsible for the consequences. It is a matter of responsibility. If they are adult enough to take part of an adult activity such as sex, then they should be adult enough to be responsible for the results of it. I have taught my sons to respect women, that they are not just sexual objects. You would think that all of the modern feminist would agree with this point of view, instead of teaching boys to disrespect women. I have taught them that sex is something to be experienced between a man and woman who are in love, and plan on being together for life. Someone that they are willing to have a lifetime attachment to through a child. It is not simply a recreational activity. It is something that comes with serious consequences, whether it be that of having a child, or that of catching an STD because their partner has practiced sex as recreation. I have also taught my sons that if they were to find themselves in a situation where they end up having sex, to do so responsibly and use protection.

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Aug 24, 2012 08:42:12   #
dtcracer
 
docrob wrote:
photosbysexton wrote:
I also think that we should make it fair. How about we allow that child to abort the parents when they reach a certain age? You libs are all about fairness, right?


Children can petition the court for emancipation from their parents.


Emancipation is not abortion. In the case of abortion, and LIFE is aborted. In the case of emancipation, the responsiblities of the parent is removed, yet their LIFE is still intact. Not even the same thing. At least that child was alive to make the choice of emancipation.

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Aug 24, 2012 08:44:18   #
photosbysexton Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
[quote=JBTaylor]
photosbysexton wrote:
BW326 wrote:
“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
- J.K.

Who is JK Galbraith?


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith

He was a Canadian-American economist. He was a Keynesian, an institutionalist, and a leading proponent of 20th-century American liberalism. His books on economic topics were bestsellers from the 1950s through the 2000s and he filled the role of public intellectual from the 1950s to the 1970s on matters of economics.
quote=BW326 “The modern conservative is engaged i... (show quote)


Anyone that believed for one second that Keynes' economic theories would help our economy has been proven wrong several times over the past 90 years. The gov't spending money to create a stimulus only costs the taxpayer more, therefore slowing the economy even more. Why anyone would quote someone that supports those theories as an intellectual is beyond me.

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