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mirrorless cameras
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Jan 22, 2019 18:53:55   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
jscorbin wrote:
Another advantage of mirrorless, that hasn't been mentioned yet (I don't think) is:

Mirrorless is much better for conversion to Infrared. After several years, when you replace your mirrorless camera with a newer one, you can have the old one converted to an IR camera. Mirrorless focuses infrared better, because it is essentially always in live view -- and thus focuses correctly for all lenses. You also can use different IR filters on the lens of a converted camera, and see the image in the EVF.

With a converted DSLR, the IR focus point through the mirror system is different than the live view focus for each lens. You can have the viewfinder focus calibrated for one lens only. If you have a 590 nm conversion on the sensor, for example, and add a 720nm IR filter on the lens, the viewfinder goes black. You must use live view with an IR filter on a DSLR -- which can be awkward.
Another advantage of mirrorless, that hasn't been ... (show quote)


GREAT point. Lots of us grew up with Ektachrome Infrared slide film in the 1970s. We always had to offset our focus points manually on our lenses. It was somewhat of a guess...

Now you can get several different types of conversions of old digital cameras. You're right, the mirrorless focusing system design is far superior for infrared conversions.

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Jan 22, 2019 21:04:38   #
John_F Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
My take on view finders. With a dslr the mirror illuminated the viewfinder, so you see the scene as it is. With an EVF you see the image as recorded on the sensor - so the question is "is the sensor strictly faithful to the scene as it is. A fundamental consideration is the fidelity of the sensor. We know a sensor is a spacial array of solid state traps and given the Heidenberg Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics there is dimensional limit for the charge trap wells. If the sensor is 36 mm x 24 mm and the image is 6,000 pixels x 4,000 pixels, each pixel covers a square of 0.006 mm x 0.006 mm (60,000 å). Each pixel must be electrically insulated for the other pixels and the charge traps within each a pixel must be electrically insulated. You see where this going. The light falling on an insulation element of the sensor does nothing. Imagine holding up a square of window screen so you see a mosaic of a scene. Because these dimensions are down to the 10s to 100s of Ångstrom units, our brains fillin the blanks. With these dimensional considerations what can be said about sensor fidelity.

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Jan 22, 2019 21:07:09   #
gwilliams6
 
burkphoto wrote:
Thanks. The Panasonic flagship owners have enjoyed the same sort of firmware "brain transplants" for years. I got a GH4 at version 1.0. It is now at 2.7, which has lots of features that didn't ship with the camera. The G9, GH5, and GH5S — and many lenses — have been updated multiple times as well, and I expect the updates to continue.

The better mirrorless manufacturers have figured out that they can release a camera and then refine and improve its performance and features. This is somewhat possible with dSLRs, but hasn't really been expected. When I used Canons and Nikons, we were lucky to get bug fixes.
Thanks. The Panasonic flagship owners have enjoyed... (show quote)


Yes Sony took a page from Panasonic and Fuji with their latest firmware update moves for their A9, A7RIII and A7III. Cheers

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Jan 22, 2019 22:30:21   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Yes Sony took a page from Panasonic and Fuji with their latest firmware update moves for their A9, A7RIII and A7III. Cheers


I hope it’s a trend. It’s not different from Apple updating iOS every year and supporting five years’ worth of iPhones.

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Jan 22, 2019 22:39:53   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
burkphoto wrote:
I hope it’s a trend. It’s not different from Apple updating iOS every year and supporting five years’ worth of iPhones.


Nikon Z's were criticized for not having Eye AF. Based on the reviews I don't think anybody expected them to add it with firmware. Maybe they will improve low light focus at the same time.

If it is a trend we may start seeing a longer lag time between new bodies being introduced.

--

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Jan 22, 2019 22:55:10   #
billbarcus Loc: IPNW
 
The trade-off is $$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$$$. Soon there will be laser-beamed cameras, and then thought-cameras where one just wishes a thought and out pops an image, and then .. and then ...

And then ... it all never ends!

The mirror up option on my camera works just fine. Having shot enough weddings and wildlife where the sound of the shutter has never been an issue - in fact, I am quite fond of the mirror smacking up and down. Giving up film in order to stay up with the 21st century's demands of client's 'wanting it now mentality' is as far as I'm going.

Staying where I am ... thank you.

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Jan 22, 2019 22:55:26   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bill_de wrote:
Nikon Z's were criticized for not having Eye AF. Based on the reviews I don't think anybody expected them to add it with firmware. Maybe they will improve low light focus at the same time.

If it is a trend we may start seeing a longer lag time between new bodies being introduced.

--


That could be good!

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Jan 22, 2019 23:47:21   #
Moondoggie Loc: Southern California
 
Well, lots of good information from people that know a lot more than I do. I have a D5300, it fits my hands fine, reasonable lighter in weight and most of all it takes pretty good pictures. I try to avoid GAS but enjoy reading about new gear. Thanks for everyone’s contributions.

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Jan 23, 2019 05:47:47   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
John_F wrote:
My take on view finders. With a dslr the mirror illuminated the viewfinder, so you see the scene as it is. With an EVF you see the image as recorded on the sensor - so the question is "is the sensor strictly faithful to the scene as it is. A fundamental consideration is the fidelity of the sensor. We know a sensor is a spacial array of solid state traps and given the Heidenberg Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics there is dimensional limit for the charge trap wells. If the sensor is 36 mm x 24 mm and the image is 6,000 pixels x 4,000 pixels, each pixel covers a square of 0.006 mm x 0.006 mm (60,000 å). Each pixel must be electrically insulated for the other pixels and the charge traps within each a pixel must be electrically insulated. You see where this going. The light falling on an insulation element of the sensor does nothing. Imagine holding up a square of window screen so you see a mosaic of a scene. Because these dimensions are down to the 10s to 100s of Ångstrom units, our brains fillin the blanks. With these dimensional considerations what can be said about sensor fidelity.
My take on view finders. With a dslr the mirror il... (show quote)


You can set up the evf to view like a
DSLR...but why the heck you’d want to do that is beyond me.

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Jan 23, 2019 08:51:00   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
tdekany wrote:
The battery is not an issue with mirrorless. The older cameras with the smaller batteries may take less photos than a dslr, but how many photos do most people take a day? I go out every day to shoot and don’t have to recharge for a week. IF you happen to deplete a battery, how long do you think it takes to change it out? It is a non issue, plus the latest cameras are supplied with a bigger battery anyway so you are spreading the wrong info.


Not only that, but most people using a DSLR leave the screen active when shooting for chimping. This uses a whole lot more power than that required by the EVF. With a mirrorless you do not need to chimp as much. I think that manufactures rate battery life with the rear screen on. But I see little reason to actually operate that way. This is why we keep hearing reports that Z6 and EOS R battery life in the field seems longer that predicted.

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Jan 23, 2019 09:46:51   #
Tomcat5133 Loc: Gladwyne PA
 
Wow!
So much controversy about DSLR & Mirrorless. Not worth the argument.
I would think that a discussion about the imagery (IQ) would be more productive.
And the video capabilities of all these cameras. Honestly 5 years ago I started shooting
triathlons and running festivals. First time I used Nikon D800 and it was just OK.
Then I got a Sony Camcorder XDCam and it was so much more suited for the work.
And the imagery is 10 bit and really good. I had been using Sony NEX cameras for
traveling and I was impressed. That led to the Sony a6000 and a7s. And now the
a7s II. And other mirrorless like RX100 4, RX10 III, a6300. It was the video and the
sensor technology and the size that led me into mirrorless. I loved my Nikon D300,
D700. They D7000 got me into video). Good luck.

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Jan 23, 2019 10:58:49   #
gwilliams6
 
dsmeltz wrote:
Not only that, but most people using a DSLR leave the screen active when shooting for chimping. This uses a whole lot more power than that required by the EVF. With a mirrorless you do not need to chimp as much. I think that manufactures rate battery life with the rear screen on. But I see little reason to actually operate that way. This is why we keep hearing reports that Z6 and EOS R battery life in the field seems longer that predicted.


Very true. The CIPA ratings are from battery tests that favor how a DSLR uses it battery. In real life the best mirrorless systems will get far more shots than their CIPA ratings. Mirrorless Manufacturers choose to quote the CIPA ratings, but then in reality the batteries last much longer, with no chimping or live view needed.

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Jan 23, 2019 11:30:39   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Very true. The CIPA ratings are from battery tests that favor how a DSLR uses it battery. In real life the best mirrorless systems will get far more shots than their CIPA ratings. Mirrorless Manufacturers choose to quote the CIPA ratings, but then in reality the batteries last much longer, with no chimping or live view needed.


What really eats battery life quickly is flash. People who rely on the peanut strobes in their cameras tend to drain the battery quickly. If a camera has a built-in flash, the CIPA rating formula includes a certain amount of flash usage.

I carry two batteries and both AC and car chargers in my bag. With that setup, I have yet to run out of battery power on my GH4. One battery will get me through most of a day. The second one usually has two bars left if the camera is used all day. That would typically be after several hundred stills and up to an hour of video.

I tested the camera once to see how much 1080P 50Mbps video I could record on one battery (without using WiFi). It was two hours, 23 minutes. That was using the camera with the rear screen active.

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Jan 23, 2019 13:22:56   #
Ched49 Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Tom Daniels wrote:
Wow!
So much controversy about DSLR & Mirrorless. Not worth the argument.
I would think that a discussion about the imagery (IQ) would be more productive.
And the video capabilities of all these cameras. Honestly 5 years ago I started shooting
triathlons and running festivals. First time I used Nikon D800 and it was just OK.
Then I got a Sony Camcorder XDCam and it was so much more suited for the work.
And the imagery is 10 bit and really good. I had been using Sony NEX cameras for
traveling and I was impressed. That led to the Sony a6000 and a7s. And now the
a7s II. And other mirrorless like RX100 4, RX10 III, a6300. It was the video and the
sensor technology and the size that led me into mirrorless. I loved my Nikon D300,
D700. They D7000 got me into video). Good luck.
Wow! br So much controversy about DSLR & Mirr... (show quote)
Exactly right...not worth the argument. People seem to get all hyper when a new camera system comes on the market, thinking that the old way of taking photo's is going to go obsolete. Is there a big difference in photo quality between the two camera systems?...no. Mirrorless is a great idea if you want a smaller, lighter high performance camera other than the DSLR, it's just another way to take pictures.

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Jan 23, 2019 13:51:54   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Ched49 wrote:
Exactly right...not worth the argument. People seem to get all hyper when a new camera system comes on the market, thinking that the old way of taking photo's is going to go obsolete. Is there a big difference in photo quality between the two camera systems?...no. Mirrorless is a great idea if you want a smaller, lighter high performance camera other than the DSLR, it's just another way to take pictures.


Smaller lighter has very little to do with the appeal of new generation of mirrorless cameras. The technology offers a lot of improvements over DLSRs in terms of functionality of the view finder, improved auto focus (since the focus is done on the same sensor), better potential for lenses, etc...

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