JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

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It is hidden from public view... for good reason.

Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.

To Johnfirm.
This is ever so personal.
I have a condition it is dyslexia, so that should explain some of the use of grammar and some of the spelling that is not in the traditional sense. Errors in the standard are apparent to those who do not have this type of mind function. Just to point out it is why the legislature of our Federal Government created the Americans with Disability Act into law. Truth is it also does not educate the public as to what dyslexia is as a particular way of thinking. Dyslexia is not a disability it is a different manner of perceiving reality.

That stated, criticism does have a structure that is expected of members of the MFA program. It is one of the primary corner stones of the process to candidacy and the final award of the degree. It is note worthy that the University of Texas System did not bar an individual from their educational program due to the condition of dyslexia. An opinion can and is indeed a feature of being an American Citizen, of which I am one. Each two and four years I make my opinion known as you do in the arena of politics. I can even say that certain Republicans have my admiration such as Dwight Eisenhower and Richard Nixon for different reasons. That admiration is for their perceived service and yet I will say these are held opinions.

Formal criticism has a structure and it is taught to the MFA student. The first rule is to use criticism in a manner that removes private opinion from the process. Term such as I like, I do not like have no place in the critique. One is asked to proceed from a position in which the history of art is the foundation of what is presented as a response to the art work.

Perhaps it would be best to give a useful example, not that most here are reading this train wreck any further, but those who do should at least receive something for their effort. If I were asked about Leonardo de Vinci's Mona Lisa, I would be stating an opinion. It can only be an opinion, nothing more. To say that it is a great work of art is absurd. The reason for this is that the Mona Lisa does no longer exist. It is a forgery, one of six and only four are held in the Louvre in Paris. It is imposable for anyone to express an evaluation of the work without first making the clear declaration of the fact that it is a copy.

So any attempt to offer a criticism of this 'art work' would be absurd without such declaration. Yet the world goes on and on with entire books published arguing its importance. It's importance is a social issue, but it can have no merit as a formal art work any longer.

Taken further, evaluating the seminal work entitled "The Erased De Kooning*" follows in the same category. One can not speak to the art work that was removed, rather one must see it as both a process and event. It can not be viewed as a 'work of art', but it is catalogued and housed with the Museum of Modern Art in New York.
*https://www.moma.org/audio/playlist/40/642

One can understand why it becomes important to understand formal criticism, why it is important to the evolution of art and it's proper and important place in a social structure. When I was degreed from the MFA program I agreed to follow this type of structure. Other university degrees have stated such requirements of their degree recipients.

So, I want to say I like, I don't like a certain politician and offer my reasons as simple honest opinion. An art work for myself has a different required standard.

I will finally say that I did in fact select the use of my portrait by a friend, a fellow artist by the name Arnold Newman. Yes, some will say it is hubris, perhaps it is so. I find it just so odd that no one has brought into question that I have committed some social transgression on this photography site by placing my image by what is regarded as one of the vary finest portrait photographers in the history of the medium. No one has questioned that Arnold Newman made this portrait or that it is me depicted. Yet for all the back and forth, it is about the MFA and that Tim Summa was presented such a degree in the fine arts and that it is a high degree held by the Texas University System at the time to be a terminal degree. There is hubris, but to whom is the title to be given? You could check the facts of Tim's MFA and it's status as a degree, try doing that with the portrait.

Please, geting back to the original post about what your thoughts are about a blind woman presenting her partly clothed person to a photographic event with a large grin on her face. She can no longer speak to us, tell of her felling's and her thoughts. Her mirth has a quality of revealing her sense of joy and humanity. This quality of mirth is what captured my imagination.

One last important part for myself is that in being a part of the photograph in which her attitude of open expressions I was taken to a thinking about an old Buddhist belief, that is, a human being dies twice, the first is that of physical death, the second is when the last person who remembers them has no longer remembered them. By posting this image of this mirthful woman I help to reestablish her memory into the memory of all who see and have cause to remember her. I was also reminded as I viewed her image and that of the other woman, I will remember Miss Mirth, she is not dead, just departed. "You can see seeing, you can not hear hearing" M. Duchamp.

Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.

Fotoartist
I don't think the Hog has such a magical place. I use to have wonderful dreams of attics, filled with 'things' that brought forth such great memories of my past. I would be fun to explore The Hog Attic indeed! Oh, please if you find it please tell, I will go there and play!

chazman143 Loc: Bakersfield, CA and Peoria, IL

For such a learned individual, Timmers, you can't spell worth a sh*t!

JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Tim, thanks for pointing out your condition. Knowing that you have dyslexia may help readers interpret your posts. I know it will change my perspective.

Your statement "Dyslexia is not a disability it is a different manner of perceiving reality" is itself interesting in that it brings into question what human traits/characteristics/behaviours/capabilities society should consider "normal" as opposed to representing a "disability." Once normality is defined -- if even possible, and then if widely accepted -- the question morphs to how society should cope with people who have a particular "abnormal" condition. We could debate all of this at length, but I won't go there.

I would like to address your position that criticism has a structure and that you can only give an opinion on the Mona Lisa because she no longer exists. You close the next paragraph by stating that the Mona Lisa "can have no merit as a formal art work any longer." (Did I get that right?) I don't agree with you.

Science, and more importantly scientific evaluation, also has a structure. With respect to the Mona Lisa, science could certainly evaluate the technical quality of the copy/reproduction of the piece. The characteristics in question could be the quality of the canvas, the composition of the paints, colours of the pigments, accuracy of the drawn contours, etc, but that would NOT be evaluating the piece as a work of art. While I don't have an original Mona Lisa, nor do I have a reprint/repaint in my possession, I can get plenty of images of the piece to enable me to critique, or opine, on what I like and do not like about the image. In expressing my evaluation of the Mona Lisa as a piece of art that I might or might not like, I would address things like her smile and what it means to me, the expression on her face, the setting and whether it contributes to the mood of the painting, whether she as a woman is beautiful/exotic/plain, etc. Sure, all of these are dependent on where the brush strokes landed on the canvas, but I don't think I would be going out too far on a limb to say that whether it is a reproduction or a photograph of an original Mona Lisa, I can still comment on Da Vinci's painting as a piece of art. As a scientist I would ask myself if the representation is close enough to the original with respect to the attributes that I am evaluating, and if deemed close enough I would proceed with my "art assessment." Of course, not being a fine arts major I accept that my evaluation may be shallow or superficial from an art history perspective, but I am entitled to my opinion as to whether I like the piece or not.

As to my thoughts regarding the blind nude, had you not told me (I am not that into famous works of art) I would never have known. While the sighted model seems to have an awareness of her setting and the photographer, the blind lady seems to be in a state of pure joy totally oblivious as to her surroundings; she is revelling in her inner pleasure and satisfaction with herself as a woman.

So I find it interesting that, while we come from totally different backgrounds with VERY different training in how we approach and evaluate something, we come to similar conclusions. I also find your last paragraph an interesting philosophical introspection on what the image means to you and why you posted it in the first place.

Now to carry on this "train wreck" just a bit further, I would be curious to know what YOU think of the images you have posted in the past few weeks, beginning with the monkeys and then including ladies with dildos. Are they photographic masterpieces? Well posed? Technically well-lit? What do they convey? What do you think your readers/viewers get out of looking at them? Why do you think I should look at them? Do you want critiques or opinions? Do you feel encouraged to post more of that genre? Do they show your creative talent as an artist? Do they measure up to the standards of one with a MFA degree? Would your UTSA professors and peers commend your efforts?

Just curious.

J (and that would be "Frim," not "firm")

Dziadzi Loc: Wilkes-Barre, PA

Much Self Aggrandizement?

DickC Loc: NE Washington state

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

> Now look at these women's individual expressions. Now think, if you are blind how do you do this in front of a camera? <
Nature and nurture. Having been born one, been breeding and breeding breeders since, I am always surrounded by kids. No matter what people say, boys and girls are different right from the beginning. Dressed alike, at six months it's obvious. Then we well meaners take over. We teach the girls how to be flirts. how to pay attention, and how to get attention paid. How to act and move to get the attention she wants. This woman has had daily reinforcement and training to be a woman in her society, all her life. Whether she's blind or not, she will act like the woman on the left, because doing otherwise will mean she'll be treated differently. And probably not well.

2nefoto

is it me? I thought this was a photography forum to discuss images presented here. the ping pong rhetoric relative to educational definition seems a bit out of place to this reader.