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Voter I.D.
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Aug 17, 2012 01:50:08   #
leonardb Loc: Montgomery,AL
 
Down here in parts of Ala there are more people voting in some counties that there are people living in the dam county, voter ID might stop some of them dead people from voting

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 04:21:53   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
ole sarg wrote:
bangee5: so you are ready to take them. Say I give you a call and say I need to go to the DMV to get my ID can you take me and wait till its done because I will need a ride home. You see I am 89 and really cannot wait too long on my own because I am rather frail.

It will only take about 5 hours to get the ID because the DMV is only open 3 days per week. It is 27 miles from where I live. They do not take appointments. There is always a line about two blocks long.

But, since you offered can you pick me up, take me, and wait?
bangee5: so you are ready to take them. Say I gi... (show quote)


You don't have a picture i.d. Sarge? And you also live in Pennsylvania?

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 06:47:33   #
Hunter Lou 1947 Loc: Minnesota
 
dtcracer wrote:
overthemoon wrote:
A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.

In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity, including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.


Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.

In Minnesota, there have been 10 total cases of reported fraud and no cases of voter impersonation reported since 2000.

“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul.


Courtesy of Hamline University
David Schultz
“There is absolutely no evidence that [voter impersonation fraud] has affected the outcome of any election in the United States, at least any recent election in the United States,” Schultz said.

What we found
The News21 analysis of its election fraud database shows:

In-person voter-impersonation fraud is rare. The database shows 207 cases of other types of fraud for every case of voter impersonation.
 “The fraud that matters is the fraud that is organized. That's why voter impersonation is practically non-existent because it is difficult to do and it is difficult to pull people into conspiracies to do it,” said Lorraine Minnite, professor of public policy and administration at Rutgers University.

There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases.
 “The one issue I think is potentially important, though more or less ignored, is the overuse of absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and intimidation than on-site voter fraud,” said Daniel Lowenstein, a UCLA School of Law professor.

Of reported election-fraud allegations in which a resolution could be determined, 46 percent resulted in acquittals, dropped charges or decisions not to bring charges.
Minnite says prosecutions are rare. “You have to be able to show that people knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong and they did it anyway,” she said. “It may be in the end they [prosecutors] can't really show that the people who have cast technically illegal ballots did it on purpose.”

Felons or noncitizens sometimes register to vote or cast votes because they are confused about their eligibility. The database shows 74 cases of felons voting and 56 cases of noncitizens voting.
Voters make a lot of mistakes, from accidentally voting twice to voting in the wrong precinct.
Election officials make a lot mistakes, from clerical errors — giving voters ballots when they’ve already voted — to election workers confused about voters’ eligibility requirements.
“I don't think there is a mature democracy that has as bad of an elections system as we do,” said Richard Hasen, a professor of political science and election law expert at the University of California, Irvine. “We have thousands of electoral jurisdictions, we have non-professionals running our elections, we have partisans running our elections, we have lack of uniformity.”

Voter-impersonation fraud has attracted intense attention in recent years as conservatives and Republicans argue that strict voter ID laws are needed to prevent widespread fraud.
A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud ... (show quote)


I would say that infinitesimal rate of voter fraud is enough, after all, doesn't every vote count? That meager 10 votes may be all it takes in a close election to tip the vote fraudulently. I say we need to ID voters to prevent voter fraud. Its called being pro-active to stop a problem before it gets out of hand.
quote=overthemoon A News21 analysis of 2,068 alle... (show quote)


I agree but, let's do it in a way that people are given fair notice so that they can prepare to get what is needed and that every state has the same rules and not that one has a different set of rules. It should be completelythe same one set of rules for every state. That is why we are The United States of America.

Reply
 
 
Aug 17, 2012 07:52:41   #
dtcracer
 
Hunter Lou 1947 wrote:
dtcracer wrote:
overthemoon wrote:
A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.




In an exhaustive public records search, News21 reporters sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity, including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.


Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.

In Minnesota, there have been 10 total cases of reported fraud and no cases of voter impersonation reported since 2000.

“Voter fraud at the polls is an insignificant aspect of American elections,” said elections expert David Schultz, professor of public policy at Hamline University School of Business in St. Paul.


Courtesy of Hamline University
David Schultz
“There is absolutely no evidence that [voter impersonation fraud] has affected the outcome of any election in the United States, at least any recent election in the United States,” Schultz said.

What we found
The News21 analysis of its election fraud database shows:

In-person voter-impersonation fraud is rare. The database shows 207 cases of other types of fraud for every case of voter impersonation.
 “The fraud that matters is the fraud that is organized. That's why voter impersonation is practically non-existent because it is difficult to do and it is difficult to pull people into conspiracies to do it,” said Lorraine Minnite, professor of public policy and administration at Rutgers University.

There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases.
 “The one issue I think is potentially important, though more or less ignored, is the overuse of absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and intimidation than on-site voter fraud,” said Daniel Lowenstein, a UCLA School of Law professor.

Of reported election-fraud allegations in which a resolution could be determined, 46 percent resulted in acquittals, dropped charges or decisions not to bring charges.
Minnite says prosecutions are rare. “You have to be able to show that people knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong and they did it anyway,” she said. “It may be in the end they [prosecutors] can't really show that the people who have cast technically illegal ballots did it on purpose.”

Felons or noncitizens sometimes register to vote or cast votes because they are confused about their eligibility. The database shows 74 cases of felons voting and 56 cases of noncitizens voting.
Voters make a lot of mistakes, from accidentally voting twice to voting in the wrong precinct.
Election officials make a lot mistakes, from clerical errors — giving voters ballots when they’ve already voted — to election workers confused about voters’ eligibility requirements.
“I don't think there is a mature democracy that has as bad of an elections system as we do,” said Richard Hasen, a professor of political science and election law expert at the University of California, Irvine. “We have thousands of electoral jurisdictions, we have non-professionals running our elections, we have partisans running our elections, we have lack of uniformity.”

Voter-impersonation fraud has attracted intense attention in recent years as conservatives and Republicans argue that strict voter ID laws are needed to prevent widespread fraud.
A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud ... (show quote)


I would say that infinitesimal rate of voter fraud is enough, after all, doesn't every vote count? That meager 10 votes may be all it takes in a close election to tip the vote fraudulently. I say we need to ID voters to prevent voter fraud. Its called being pro-active to stop a problem before it gets out of hand.
quote=overthemoon A News21 analysis of 2,068 alle... (show quote)


I agree but, let's do it in a way that people are given fair notice so that they can prepare to get what is needed and that every state has the same rules and not that one has a different set of rules. It should be completelythe same one set of rules for every state. That is why we are The United States of America.
quote=dtcracer quote=overthemoon A News21 analys... (show quote)


That is what makes our country so great, the idea that each state has the right to make and enforce their own laws, as long as it doesnt't conflict with Federal law. (Even though the current trend is that they are conflicting Federal laws, look at the legalized Marijuana laws being passed, in direct conflict if Federal law). Although I agree there are some laws that should be the same in every state, and when it comes to national elections the rules should be the same, there should be a Federal guideline.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 07:53:07   #
overthemoon Loc: Wisconsin
 
Hal81 wrote:
We all know why they dont want the ID law. Only one reason. They want all the illigal votes they can get.


It was said last night on almost all the news channels there is no voter fraud it is almost none existent. In pennsylevainia last year that had 4 cases for the whole state. Then what they did say was the new laws are going to prevent a lot of people's civil rights based on the voter rights amendment in the constitution. This info wasn't just posted on lib channels but some conservative as well. A lot of good republican believe people should have ID but need to give people at least one year to get it done not 3 mo. Before an election. In Penn there are 775,000 people who need to get this done close to a million. The DMV might not even be able to handle that kind of work load. My question is if this is a requirement why does it need to be done in 3 mo.

As I see it mitt and Paul have pissed off women minorities gay elderly and the poor.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 07:56:59   #
dtcracer
 
overthemoon wrote:
Hal81 wrote:
We all know why they dont want the ID law. Only one reason. They want all the illigal votes they can get.


It was said last night on almost all the news channels there is no voter fraud it is almost none existent. In pennsylevainia last year that had 4 cases for the whole state. Then what they did say was the new laws are going to prevent a lot of people's civil rights based on the voter rights amendment in the constitution. This info wasn't just posted on lib channels but some conservative as well. A lot of good republican believe people should have ID but need to give people at least one year to get it done not 3 mo. Before an election. In Penn there are 775,000 people who need to get this done close to a million. The DMV might not even be able to handle that kind of work load. My question is if this is a requirement why does it need to be done in 3 mo.

As I see it mitt and Paul have pissed off women minorities gay elderly and the poor.
quote=Hal81 We all know why they dont want the ID... (show quote)


That is funny, I watch the news every night and I didn't see any stories on voter frad.
How have Mitt and Paul pissed off these minority groups you mentioned? And what has that got to do with voter fraud and requiring ID for voters? Or are you just trying to stir the pot with some some crap?

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 08:25:53   #
pjreed Loc: Tonopah, Arizona
 
Hal81 wrote:
Kit Lens wrote:
Just what this country needs - more firearms. We only have 300 million now.
I personally would make it illegal for anyone over seventy to own a gun at all, but that's just me.


How manty people over seventy do you know that rob and shoot other people? We nead ours to protect ourselves. If they ever pass the gun law the crooks will be over joyed they will know that we cant shoot back. Makes no sence at all. Get the illigal guns off the street if you want to do somthing.
quote=Kit Lens Just what this country needs - mor... (show quote)


It is true that countries that have gun control have fewer gun shot related deaths each year but stabbings, strangulation, bludgeoning and other ways to kill people are higher. (news media and gun control lobbyist do not tell you this) P O'd people kill people you do not need a gun.

Reply
 
 
Aug 17, 2012 08:43:10   #
dtcracer
 
pjreed wrote:
Hal81 wrote:
Kit Lens wrote:
Just what this country needs - more firearms. We only have 300 million now.
I personally would make it illegal for anyone over seventy to own a gun at all, but that's just me.


How manty people over seventy do you know that rob and shoot other people? We nead ours to protect ourselves. If they ever pass the gun law the crooks will be over joyed they will know that we cant shoot back. Makes no sence at all. Get the illigal guns off the street if you want to do somthing.
quote=Kit Lens Just what this country needs - mor... (show quote)


It is true that countries that have gun control have fewer gun shot related deaths each year but stabbings, strangulation, bludgeoning and other ways to kill people are higher. (news media and gun control lobbyist do not tell you this) P O'd people kill people you do not need a gun.
quote=Hal81 quote=Kit Lens Just what this countr... (show quote)


Look at the UK, a lot less gun deaths, but bombings are way up compared to the US.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 09:36:36   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
A simple question, should we require any type of identification to vote or should we allow anyone to vote without some form of identification? If the latter, how do we insure eligible only vote and only vote once? Someone please explain to me how we insure the integrity of the voting process. Please, no nasty responses. A simple question looking for an answer.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 09:45:36   #
pjreed Loc: Tonopah, Arizona
 
papakatz45 wrote:
A simple question, should we require any type of identification to vote or should we allow anyone to vote without some form of identification? If the latter, how do we insure eligible only vote and only vote once? Someone please explain to me how we insure the integrity of the voting process. Please, no nasty responses. A simple question looking for an answer.


Finger prints. But someone would say that it would infringe on their rights also :roll:

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 09:49:39   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
ole sarg wrote:
bangee5: so you are ready to take them. Say I give you a call and say I need to go to the DMV to get my ID can you take me and wait till its done because I will need a ride home. You see I am 89 and really cannot wait too long on my own because I am rather frail.

It will only take about 5 hours to get the ID because the DMV is only open 3 days per week. It is 27 miles from where I live. They do not take appointments. There is always a line about two blocks long.

But, since you offered can you pick me up, take me, and wait?
bangee5: so you are ready to take them. Say I gi... (show quote)


Yes I can!!!. I have nothing to do but sat on my ass 24/7. I will even buy us lunch. I do this all the time. No lie, I do. I live in HUD apartments, few us us have a car so I do what I can for my neighbors. But since you are in Hiding it would be hard to locate you. Don't you have family or friends or a neighbor that can help you?

Reply
 
 
Aug 17, 2012 10:08:33   #
overthemoon Loc: Wisconsin
 
You didnt watch it closely. Latinos because of immigration laws and wanting to become citizens huge report on it CBS gay right marriage women's health and right to eaqual pay black people just dont like mitt and elderly Medicare that's a lot of people to piss off

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 10:47:06   #
ntonkin Loc: western Upper Peninusla of Michigan
 
What makes you think there hasn't been integrity in the past. You do have to produce evidence that you are eligible to vote when you register and when I vote, I have to sign my name and they compare the signature with the one one the registration card. If someone is determined to fraudulently vote, they can get a fake ID even with a voter ID requirement. Current requirements have been reasonably adequate and still are.

If you search the web, you can find a video clip of a PA politician bragging the the new voter ID law will deliver Pennsylvania to Romney.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 11:19:23   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
It has worked for about 200 years without voter ID why won't it continue?

There is voter ID it is called a voter registration card. You need one to vote. Some states say you need that and a photo ID in Florida you do. I am not sure of other states.

But, regardless, you need more than 90 days to register 750,000 people many of whom are old and infirm!

As the GOP spokesmen from PA said: We need to surpress the vote and this is how we will do it, require voter picture IDs.


papakatz45 wrote:
A simple question, should we require any type of identification to vote or should we allow anyone to vote without some form of identification? If the latter, how do we insure eligible only vote and only vote once? Someone please explain to me how we insure the integrity of the voting process. Please, no nasty responses. A simple question looking for an answer.

Reply
Aug 17, 2012 11:20:08   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
That is an interesting statement. You do have some cited source for that don't you!


leonardb wrote:
Down here in parts of Ala there are more people voting in some counties that there are people living in the dam county, voter ID might stop some of them dead people from voting

Reply
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