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Shooting School Sports
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Nov 3, 2018 10:15:39   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
tomcat wrote:
...Here's hoping that your TriX doesn't devolve into PanX, like me..... :))


My TriX has already degenerated well past PanX - I’m rapidly approaching ASA 25 😩.

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Nov 3, 2018 10:23:11   #
billnourse Loc: Bloomfield, NM
 
AP wrote:
You talk about shooting SPORTS but do not show any of your SPORTS portfolio. Your action sports pictures are the big seller not a bunch of words that have nothing to say! Here are some of my b&w from the film days a lot tougher in the making than digital photography!


Here are a couple from grandkids teams. YAFL and high school BB. Not the Cowboys for sure, but definitely low light.


(Download)


(Download)

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Nov 3, 2018 10:29:39   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
tomcat wrote:
My business tagline was "Capture some moments". So we could say we're off to "capture some moments in a kid's life". I like that a lot better. Even though I am not a "PC" fueled person, I do think now that we need to refrain from "shooting".


Capture is a universally accepted term for image acquisition. It has that "time in a bottle" connotation...

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Nov 3, 2018 10:30:20   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
All the discussion regarding whether or not to refer to photographing, taking pictures, capturing images ad infinitum as "shooting" is essentially moot in a school setting or almost any public place. It is rapidly becoming like walking up to a TSA agent in the airport and saying "bomb". Try that one time and see how long you remain free, at least for several hours if not days. Similarly write a letter to the president and casually mention shooting him. That will buy you a few years in federal prison.

The bottom line I am attempting to reach, the use of several different words in the wrong place can, and will, get you into trouble. It is much safer and much more prudent to avoid those words most of the time, to avoid serious difficulties.

And in regards those who are "politically incorrect", I have a tee shirt which on the back reads, "Notice, the owner of this shirt is politically incorrect. I say Merry Christmas, God bless America, I salute the flag and give thanks for our troops. If this offends you, I don't care. In God we trust." I have worn it in public frequently and have received some nasty looks but also some supportive comments. However, I will not say bomb in an airport, shoot in a school or make any reference to physically harm the president or any government official. I'm not stupid. I spent 22 plis years working in federal prisons, I do not want to live in one, even for a day.

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Nov 3, 2018 10:50:50   #
PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
Can we start pushing back against political correctness?


It is not political correctness to avoid using the word "shoot" in any school setting, whether it be elementary, middle, high or collegiate and even at school related events. It is a matter of safety, for the setting and the person who may use the word. Use of the word does not impact on a persons religious, or political feelings it impacts their thoughts and feelings regarding safety. At least it does for me.

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Nov 3, 2018 10:57:55   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"...With all the news about school shootings, it is VERY politically incorrect to call any in-school, on-campus photography “shooting” anything. Some school teachers and administrators can be very rigid about this..." burkphoto speaks with rather poignant and germane wisdom...

I primarily collaborate with 14 to 21 year old talent... nearly all are in academic environments... most have expressed a heighten level of concern about firearms in general. To this end I will no longer allow any narratives involving firearms in the studio or on set (absolutely no exceptions). Those who don't seem to understand magnitude of trauma "mass shootings" has caused on today's young adults might be wise to speak with members this age group to better comprehend the issue.

Sadly the media has dramatized the issue for their own agenda... as one of my commercial (newspaper) photographer colleague pointed out to me... "If it bleeds it leads" the number of "copycat" incidents are shocking... Yet all attempts to rein in the media rhetoric fail... To this end I avoid the subject (save for this post)...

Many decades ago a very young social poet nailed it... seems the cycle continues unbroken...

Come gather 'round people where ever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone,
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen
And keep your eyes wide the chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come senators, congressmen please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don't criticize what you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a' changin'!

The line it is drawn the curse it is cast
The slow one now will later be fast
As the present now will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a' changin'!
"...With all the news about school shootings,... (show quote)


Thank-you! I have to love the Bob Dylan quote. Young people often are amazed when they hear it.

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Nov 3, 2018 11:16:11   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Jaackil wrote:
I have been shooting high school sports for years and am not familiar with any such arrangement. Maybe it exsists in some schools but I highly doubt it is universal. I have shot at every single Prep school in New England and Many High Schools in Massachusetts. As well as all NESCAC and NE10 colleges. The laws are the same throughout the US. Schools fall into a quasi public area. They are considered public space so you can shoot freely unless the school asks you not to. They do reserve the right to not allow photographing. Most will welcome it. No permission is needed and releases are not needed. However if the Principal asks you not to you must abide. No most companies that shoot yearbook pictures do not shoot all athletic events they only show up to one game for each sport and get a couple of shots to put in the yearbook. Chances are there will also be photographers from local newspapers at some of the bigger sports like football and basketball maybe even baseball. You most likely will blend in with them. Take note of where they shoot from and shoot from those same areas.
Here is the big thing very few parents will be willing to even pay a nominal fee for the images some will even try to “right click steal” them if you post them online. So if you do set up an online place to post them make sure right click saving is not allowed. I suggest licensing the digital downloads. I also suggest knowing your rights to shoot in public places and maybe even print them out and carry them with you because their will always be some mother who thinks she is a philidelphia lawyer to tell you you can not photograph children. This is not so!
As far as the actual shooting. Get Faces in the shots! People are more likely to want pictures with their kids faces then they will shots of their backs. This is the biggest mistake novices make. I have had countless parents ask my why they can’t “great” shots like I get and when I look at what they have shot it is all backs and they don’t even realize the difference. Try to get as close to the action as possible. Also shoot opposite from the crowd. Usually in high school sports the crowd is on one side. The crowd makes a better back drop than a plain wall or a parking lot if you are outdoors. Don’t forget the emotion shots. In football for example the amateur stops shooting as soon as a play ends. A pro keeps shooting to catch a celebration or emotion. High school kids show tons of emotion after every play. Have lots of memory cards. Most sporting events I shoot i shoot anywhere from 300-600 shots or more to get about 100 keepers. I know that ratio sounds bad but for sports it is pretty good, it’s the nature of shooting sports.
Good luck have fun.
I have been shooting high school sports for years ... (show quote)


In many regional areas, the model of exchanging opportunity to photograph school seniors for candid photography for the yearbook IS the norm.

When I worked for Herff Jones Photography Division (sold to Lifetouch in 2011), we purchased a company in Bensalem, PA, known as DaVor, along with a couple of other regional studios. They did probably 70% of their business in the Tri-State area as contract senior portraiture. They had a staff of folks who did nothing but photograph school events, another staff who photographed K-11 portraits, and another staff who photographed proms and dances. Their business model depended on serving the yearbook advisors at large affluent high schools and colleges (including Princeton and several other major universities). Treating the yearbook advisor as royalty was the road to serious profit. They were VERY good at it.

However... That model is not universal. We tried to implement it with no success in several other areas.

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Nov 3, 2018 12:23:48   #
tomcat
 
Thomas902 wrote:
"...With all the news about school shootings, it is VERY politically incorrect to call any in-school, on-campus photography “shooting” anything. Some school teachers and administrators can be very rigid about this..." burkphoto speaks with rather poignant and germane wisdom...

I primarily collaborate with 14 to 21 year old talent... nearly all are in academic environments... most have expressed a heighten level of concern about firearms in general. To this end I will no longer allow any narratives involving firearms in the studio or on set (absolutely no exceptions). Those who don't seem to understand magnitude of trauma "mass shootings" has caused on today's young adults might be wise to speak with members this age group to better comprehend the issue.

Sadly the media has dramatized the issue for their own agenda... as one of my commercial (newspaper) photographer colleague pointed out to me... "If it bleeds it leads" the number of "copycat" incidents are shocking... Yet all attempts to rein in the media rhetoric fail... To this end I avoid the subject (save for this post)...

Many decades ago a very young social poet nailed it... seems the cycle continues unbroken...


As sung so eloquently by Bob Dylan in 1965 while my generation wrecked America as we knew it back then. What a mess we made of morals and social responsibility. And the US did not and probably will not recover because we spawned a new generation that had no forward responsibility and no care for building a more stable future, just a grab-it now mentality.

Come gather 'round people where ever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone,
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen
And keep your eyes wide the chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come senators, congressmen please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don't criticize what you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a' changin'!

The line it is drawn the curse it is cast
The slow one now will later be fast
As the present now will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a' changin'!
"...With all the news about school shootings,... (show quote)

Reply
Nov 3, 2018 18:14:37   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
Jaackil wrote:
Can we stop being Butt Hurt over every little thing? Time to grow up and stop being a baby. Otherwise we will have no words left we will be able to use in the English language.
Guess what, people shoot basketballs, people shoot hockey pucks, people shoot pictures, OMG people drink shots.


You are right. Too much political correctness these days I say. I mean I have used the term when finding a school and asking directions of the police outside in the parking lot they understand and don't get all up in arms over it. So we need to lessen political correctness and just talk openly as the English language is a wonderful thing Especially American English.

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Nov 3, 2018 18:16:49   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
Can we start pushing back against political correctness?


I do just that. My friends love it about me. I say what I mean and stand by my word while the whole world worries about what they say.

Reply
Nov 3, 2018 18:22:33   #
drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
 
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
It is not political correctness to avoid using the word "shoot" in any school setting, whether it be elementary, middle, high or collegiate and even at school related events. It is a matter of safety, for the setting and the person who may use the word. Use of the word does not impact on a persons religious, or political feelings it impacts their thoughts and feelings regarding safety. At least it does for me.


You got a camera and Nikon uses the word short as does Canon and B&H and many others. Get over it. Apparently you have not had your work picked apart by the Photo studio you worked for as a freelance or the editor who is trying to make you a better shooter. It is the political correctness issue that plagues us all. We do not have to be political correct if one is offended let them tell me to my face why they are and not wait a week to tell my boss just to get me into trouble with the boss. Tell me so we can discuss it like adults and not cowardly babies afraid to say the wrong thing about anything.

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Nov 4, 2018 17:31:33   #
Barndog Loc: Tacoma
 
I have been doing High School Sports for 10 years. First off shooting for free will probably hurt any chance of charging later. Get a web site and charge an appropriate amount. If you shoot for free it will be expected forever. Check with the district AD and see if they would be interested in paying you to shoot sports in the high schools in the district. That is what I am currently doing. I never have had to have a model release. If there are athletes that parents don’t want you to photograph they will ask you not to. That has happened at one school I know of and involved a custody issue. Get to know the coaches and athletic advisors. Have them make you a media pass to get into away games and to show your appreciation maybe offer to do some images for the AD for display in trophy case or something. You may also be able to sell images to the yearbook. A friend of mine does that. The agreement I have with my district is I give them game images for their use, news paper, yearbook etc. but, at the same time they want parents to purchase images from me and, they also advertise for me on the schools Facebook pages and athletic pages.

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Nov 4, 2018 17:31:33   #
Barndog Loc: Tacoma
 
I have been doing High School Sports for 10 years. First off shooting for free will probably hurt any chance of charging later. Get a web site and charge an appropriate amount. If you shoot for free it will be expected forever. Check with the district AD and see if they would be interested in paying you to shoot sports in the high schools in the district. That is what I am currently doing. I never have had to have a model release. If there are athletes that parents don’t want you to photograph they will ask you not to. That has happened at one school I know of and involved a custody issue. Get to know the coaches and athletic advisors. Have them make you a media pass to get into away games and to show your appreciation maybe offer to do some images for the AD for display in trophy case or something. You may also be able to sell images to the yearbook. A friend of mine does that. The agreement I have with my district is I give them game images for their use, news paper, yearbook etc. but, at the same time they want parents to purchase images from me and, they also advertise for me on the schools Facebook pages and athletic pages.

Reply
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