A question for pixel peepers (Page 4): In the future, please use “quote reply” so we know who you are responding to. EDIT: I see the quote was added. thank you EDIT2: The term sensel...

JD750 Loc: SoCal

OllieFCR wrote:

That may be your definition of a pixel but it is not the generally accepted one. The individual photoreceptors are the pixels. Once the raw voltage data is processed, 20 million for a 20 mp sensor, you actually get a lot more data than the 20 million since you have both intensity and color information for each original data point. Unfortunately, for printing (and other non-photography applications) there are alternate definitions for pixels. This may be what is confusing you.

In the future, please use “quote reply” so we know who you are responding to.

EDIT: I see the quote was added. thank you

EDIT2:
The term sensel refers to a single element on an array of sensors.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/sensel

The term pixel refers to the smallest addressable element on a display device but the term can be used when referring to a sensor as well. AND The word pixel is a portmanteau! I did not know that.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel
and Google search, et. al.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

OllieFCR wrote:

That may be your definition of a pixel but it is not the generally accepted one. The individual photoreceptors are the pixels. Once the raw voltage data is processed, 20 million for a 20 mp sensor, you actually get a lot more data than the 20 million since you have both intensity and color information for each original data point. Unfortunately, for printing (and other non-photography applications) there are alternate definitions for pixels. This may be what is confusing you.

Blame Kodak. They invented the technology and defined the terms.

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

bpulv wrote:

I am neither a mathematician nor a scientist, but am I correct that statistics and modeling are often used as the basis for experimentation; in some cases to test the validity of the statistics and modeling themselves?

Let me clarify this. You use statistics after you measure something to decide if A differs from B or to predict the value of something based upon a known sample. What you measure can be a laboratory experiment or a collection of observations such as the census.

You model something if you have a theory about how something works and want to confirm that theory by experimentation.

I was an experimentalist and used statistics for "quality control" of my experiments and to differentiate one mechanism versus another. To me, statisticians and modelers are like arm-chair quarterbacks. Sitting at a computer and crunching numbers is easier and will always give you a satisfying result. However, that result does not necessarily reflect what happens in reality.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

abc1234 wrote:

Let me clarify this. You use statistics after you... (show quote)

“Sitting at a computer and crunching numbers is easier and will always give you a satisfying result. However, that result does not necessarily reflect what happens in reality.“

For actuaries and bookies, the results better be good most of the time, or else they are out of a job.

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

JD750 wrote:

“Sitting at a computer and crunching numbers is easier and will always give you a satisfying result. However, that result does not necessarily reflect what happens in reality.“

For actuaries and bookies, the results better be good most of the time, or else they are out of a job.

I do not know about the actuaries but the bookies might be wearing cement boots and walking the bottom of the East River.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

abc1234 wrote:

I do not know about the actuaries but the bookies might be wearing cement boots and walking the bottom of the East River.

Indeed!

aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM

Than you all for this extraordinarily interesting and informative string.

tonal Loc: Greece

gvarner wrote:

If you shoot full frame with 30 MP and crop to 2/3 of that in post, do you get an equivalent 20 MP edited photo?

No, you will end up with less than half of the pixels (4/9) because the surface area will be decreased by the square of 2/3's either you are referring to each side or diagonal (similar triangles in geometry or Pythagorean theorem make proof of this).

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

abc1234 wrote:

I do not know about the actuaries but the bookies might be wearing cement boots and walking the bottom of the East River.

Actuaries ARE damned good! Have you ever noticed how banks and insurance companies seem to have the largest, most grandiose buildings in their headquarters cities? They know how to bet with statistics.

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

Of course it doesn’t hurt that they borrow money at free or next to free and can leverage it too... Then there are the government taxpayer bailouts of billions that the banks get too. It’s all a rigged system from where I stand...

burkphoto wrote:

Actuaries ARE damned good! Have you ever noticed how banks and insurance companies seem to have the largest, most grandiose buildings in their headquarters cities? They know how to bet with statistics.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

That’s life. It’s ALL rigged. Or not...

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

abc1234 wrote:

As long as we are getting off topic... Statistics... (show quote)

In decision making, statistics and modeling allow the elimination of issues form consideration in complex problems. Models are as much about what they don't say as much as what they do say. And the issue of a "crop" sensor is similar in that the "crop" model used to explain the difference is a limited model. An individuals understanding of the model my also be limiting. As below:

BboH wrote:

I have never been able to get my head around the i... (show quote)

BboH sees to view the model as linear. However, multiple factors come into play that makes it non-linear. Number of pixels utilized, size of pixels, available light, etc... Some of these items would cause the number of peaches to magically multiply. Sort of like he purchased a 20oz jar of peaches, but a sale on peaches due to better available light offers two 16oz jars for the price of one 20oz jar along with bonus points for a faster lens.