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Jul 8, 2018 23:55:00   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
with all due respect, your argument is idiotic and lacks knowledge of assembly line procedures and processes.
--Bob
billnikon wrote:
Why don't car companies only make ONE MODEL. Why don't shoe companies only make ONE SHOE STYLE. Why don't clothing companies only make one style of shorts, pants, skirts, blouse's. Why don't purse companies only make ONE STYLE.
If you have to ask you really don't understand economics.

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Jul 9, 2018 00:01:10   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
billnikon wrote:
If you add a space between the Nikon F mount lens and the new mirrorless Nikon camera, you change the characteristics of the Nikon F mount lens. It is unavoidable. There WILL be cutoff (your words). There is NO way an adapter will make the 14-24 2.8 mm lens 14-24 mm 2.8 on the mirrorless camera. If that were the case, there would be no need to make any new lenses for the new Nikon mirrorless camera's. You would simply buy the adapter and camera and every one of your current F mount lenses would work exactly the same as if it were mounted on a current F mount full frame DSLR. The new adapter just won't work that way. Understand now?
If you add a space between the Nikon F mount lens ... (show quote)

No, I do not understand, no matter how many times you repeat the same thing. If the new camera has a shorter flange distance, there would be room for an adapter that would put the back of the lens exactly the same distance it is on any current camera, and the characteristics of the lens will remain the same. No change. Period.

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Jul 9, 2018 00:12:23   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
rehess wrote:
No, I do not understand, no matter how many times you repeat the same thing. If the new camera has a shorter flange distance, there would be room for an adapter that would put the back of the lens exactly the same distance it is on any current camera, and the characteristics of the lens will remain the same. No change. Period.


I have no idea about the engineering that goes into these things, but logically what you are saying makes sense. Hopefully we'll know soon.

--

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Jul 9, 2018 00:39:43   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Bill_de wrote:
I have no idea about the engineering that goes into these things, but logically what you are saying makes sense. Hopefully we'll know soon.

--



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Jul 9, 2018 02:39:06   #
rcarol
 
BebuLamar wrote:
But Nikon would not be so stupid to use the F mount on their new cameras.


Why would it be stupid for Nikon to use the F mount on their new cameras? Just curious!

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Jul 9, 2018 05:21:50   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
I read the reference to their possible new cameras on Nikon Rumours and also the comments on the article afterwards. The comments were most useful, possibly more so than the article.
There are a number of reasons some of which are, not in any order, and probably only a few that I picked up ie there are probably many more.
1. The diameter of the F mount itself is very small and makes the lens longer than it needs to be. Why, because the larger the diameter the more light comes through and therefore the lens can be made smaller. It looks as if, for a variety of reasons, Nikon has a smaller initial diameter, probably historic.
2. The obvious one is if Nikon makes a completely different lens mount that ALL your current lens with an F mount can't be used. Therefore you must buy a whole new set of lenses. As you can imagine that will annoy the hell out of all existing users so Nikon has a bit of a problem keeping everybody happy. It is not sure what Nikon will do about this but one way out is to make an adapter that will take take the F mount and fit it to the new mount. This adapter will be expensive because it has to represent to the lens a lot of stuff not required in mirrorless.
3. I think it is inevitable that Nikon must change at some stage as others already have.
4. One of the reasons that mirrorless works is because it means everything can be smaller and lighter. This means a new lens mount. On a mirrorless camera the space between the sensor and the lens mount is shorter hence everything is more compact. You cannot have compact and retain the F mount because an F mount has a bigger space between the mount and the sensor. Nikon might make an adapter that will fit an F mount into a wider mounting hole to try and minimise lost space. You might lose a small amount of the effective viewing.
5. One thing that might happen is Nikon, and others, might go for a larger than FF sensor to aim for medium format. This might gain an extra F stop because of the larger inlet hole therefore more light getting in. This costs nothing in the overall scheme of things except you can't do it with an F mount.
6. Nikon is about the last player to get involved in mirrorless alternatives to DSLR. Because they are late it will be harder for them to keep everybody happy.
7. One thing that should not be forgotton is that you don't have to switch to mirrorless as all your present gear will still work.
Issues for Nikon and you is that DSLR used prices and values will drop. The implementation is of huge concern to Nikon. The move to mirrorless will probably happen way faster than anybody anticipates. In five years DSLRs will go the way of film cameras is my GUESS. L brackets will become useless as the shape of the body will be different and probably smaller. Doin't think that this won't happen. One thing that is quite obvious from reading UHH is the universal interest photographers have in getting something smaller but there are penalties for this. Point & shoots, moves to other manf and smaller mirrorless cameras, complaints about how big and large users cameras are etc.
Now it is possible that Nikon could take their existing bodies and fit the sensor closer to the front. And work on other ways so that you are minimally impacted. But don't dream or hope that this will be so because they will be the only manf who does and in a few years would leave them so far behind that Nikon would be history.
We are in for interesting times.
If none of this makes much sense then go read the Nikon Rumours stuff especially the comments at the end (there are a ton). If you don't then perhaps you aren't that interested anyway.

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Jul 9, 2018 12:34:16   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
rcarol wrote:
Why would it be stupid for Nikon to use the F mount on their new cameras? Just curious!


Because you'd be stuck with large and heavy lenses in a world of light weight and you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the new technology. I expect an adaptor will be available, probably at release, but I am waiting, and expecting, some excellent, lighter glass. Best of luck.

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Jul 9, 2018 13:12:32   #
no nameJoe
 
Am an old man in my 83 with a bag full of nikon lenses and cameras , also a couple of Sony mirrorless as I see it I am satisfied with the gear that I have and it is not that I can not afford them could buy either one of them with no problem by the time nikon would have co%ected all the bugs out of their new system I will be long gone over to the other side I am not the only one in that position from what I gather reading the blogs That means that my kids will get more cash when I am gone

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Jul 9, 2018 13:14:32   #
no nameJoe
 
Photocraig wrote:
The end game of "Backward Compatibility" is playing out for Nikon, and to an extent for Canon, too. While Nikon has done an astonishing job in maintaining the longevity of its legendary F mount lenses, eventually technology and innovation and physics collide and make a manufacturer face the existential fact that they must change product specifications to keep current with new and, as in SONY their Sensor Vendor, disruptive Competitive offerings.

Canon "bit the bullet" and dropped their old FD, etc. mounts and introduced the EF and later EF-S, etc. Mount lenses for their EOS line of cameras, they benefited in the market and with functionality. However, today's Interchangeable Lens Camera Market for Enthusiasts and Pros is now officially disrupted by the A7RIII. I say this, as an enthusiast, who bought a DSLR in October, and a long time Canon EOS user. The convincing events were the SONY introduction and the beyond ORGASMIC reviews given to the A7RIII by the talking heads, both bigoted, and cooler.

I'm all for fantastic new products that take the state of the art and Image Quality to new heights. I can only think that the 30-or so years of Canon and Nikon essentially controlling the SLR and DSLR markets and adhering to their "Backward Compatibility" lens policies to protect their users'--like me--investment in compatible glass. However, as a Computer Industry veteran, where the product cycles from intro to replacement to unsupported spans three years it is a miracle that they survived with this Tactical substitute for Strategy for so long.

HINT: Look toward the US Defense Department Procurement rules that mandates that new Aircraft and Ships and other weapon systems be fitted with Electronics and "proven" Computer Systems. The unintentional consequences that policy is that by the very product cycles built into the technology they will be obsolete and not commercially (DOD Handcuffed support, yes, and a big $$ price) available and supportable by the time the first production (probably Prototype) rolls out.

Nikon and Canon and others, as well, have had these super full frame products ready to roll out for a while. (I already posted on Cannibalization.) The market question for them is will they be good enough to compete with SONY, especially if the users have to replace their legacy lens inventory. And, the challenge for SONY is to manage an ever more impressive Lens Offering with System Components, and more reasonably competitive prices. The 400mm 2.8 seems to be getting kudo's on quality.

The overall message, is nobody controls the market forever. Those Manufacturers like GM, IBM and, perhaps, Microsoft might learn from the Canon-Nikon (and the many before them) controlled market currently being disrupted by a major vendor, SONY and Consumer electronics and Industrial giants, Panasonic, Fuji and our friends at Olympus.

It will be fun and instructive to watch. Hopefully Industry Titans in Training are watching and are not too arrogant to learn.
C
The end game of "Backward Compatibility"... (show quote)

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Jul 9, 2018 13:32:34   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
camerapapi wrote:
The news are not exciting to me. The prices are ridiculously high.
I stay with Olympus.


There were similar price estimates before the release of the D850. Could be a marketing tactic to have consumers think the actual release price a bargain.

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Jul 9, 2018 13:38:31   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
no nameJoe wrote:
Am an old man in my 83 with a bag full of nikon lenses and cameras , also a couple of Sony mirrorless as I see it I am satisfied with the gear that I have and it is not that I can not afford them could buy either one of them with no problem by the time nikon would have co%ected all the bugs out of their new system I will be long gone over to the other side I am not the only one in that position from what I gather reading the blogs That means that my kids will get more cash when I am gone



Hopefully that cash will buy them all new cameras.

---

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Jul 9, 2018 13:46:09   #
HOT Texas Loc: From the Heart of Texas
 
rmalarz wrote:
with all due respect, your argument is idiotic and lacks knowledge of assembly line procedures and processes.
--Bob


Come on Bob your smarter than that, without new models to sell that assembly line is dead just like dlsr's.

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Jul 9, 2018 13:53:36   #
rcarol
 
cjc2 wrote:
Because you'd be stuck with large and heavy lenses in a world of light weight and you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the new technology. I expect an adaptor will be available, probably at release, but I am waiting, and expecting, some excellent, lighter glass. Best of luck.


I have to take issue with your statement that a full frame mirrorless camera would have lenses that are lightweight and smaller. If you take a look at the Sony line of FF mirrorless cameras you will see that the bodies are smaller than an equivalent DSLR but there is very little weight loss attributed to lenses for mirrorless cameras. In fact, the weight of the lenses, to a large degree, negates the advantage of the lighter, smaller body of the Sony mirrorless cameras. It is true that the lenses for crop sensor mirrorless cameras are lighter and smaller than their FF counterparts but that can be said of DSLRs as well.

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Jul 9, 2018 14:01:42   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
rcarol wrote:
I have to take issue with your statement that a full frame mirrorless camera would have lenses that are lightweight and smaller. If you take a look at the Sony line of FF mirrorless cameras you will see that the bodies are smaller than an equivalent DSLR but there is very little weight loss attributed to lenses for mirrorless cameras. In fact, the weight of the lenses, to a large degree, negates the advantage of the lighter, smaller body of the Sony mirrorless cameras. It is true that the lenses for crop sensor mirrorless cameras are lighter and smaller than their FF counterparts but that can be said of DSLRs as well.
I have to take issue with your statement that a fu... (show quote)


Are you trying to put a dent in all the hype?

--

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Jul 9, 2018 14:10:59   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
rcarol wrote:
I have to take issue with your statement that a full frame mirrorless camera would have lenses that are lightweight and smaller. If you take a look at the Sony line of FF mirrorless cameras you will see that the bodies are smaller than an equivalent DSLR but there is very little weight loss attributed to lenses for mirrorless cameras. In fact, the weight of the lenses, to a large degree, negates the advantage of the lighter, smaller body of the Sony mirrorless cameras. It is true that the lenses for crop sensor mirrorless cameras are lighter and smaller than their FF counterparts but that can be said of DSLRs as well.
I have to take issue with your statement that a fu... (show quote)


Take any issue that you want, all is fine with me. Just my thoughts. When Nikon releases their new 'system' we'll all know! In any case, I am expecting this new glass to be both lighter and smaller. Best of luck.

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