mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

The issue for professionals when choosing a camera system is more about the reliability of their equipment in the field and the quality of the service available. Nikon and Canon pro equipment is reliable and very weather resistant, and the pro level service they get is first-rate. It really doesn't make any difference how great Sony's images might be if the cameras are less reliable in tough field conditions and professional level services aren't as good. Sony has a way to go on both fronts. They may eventually get there, but not yet.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

I thought this was a cool shot BUT more importantly for some, I think I found a mirrorless!!!!
This guy is using a ml on a very cool steady cam to run along and record the action, very cool. I’ll admit, I way he could hold up a dslr and do that!
The in the Stars jersey is the US National Champion!!!
SS

gwilliams6

As a fulltime pro, I am sorry but you couldn't be more wrong here. My Sony Imaging Pro Services is every bit as good as My Nikon and Canon Pro services ever was. From rentals, trying new gear, services at the Olympics and other top events, and quick repairs and turn around, the reports from around the world say Sony Pro Services is quickly catching up to and matching Nikon and Canon.

I was a Nikon and Canon pro SLR and DSLR users for 40 years and switched to Sony fullframe mirrorless back in January 2017. My new Sonys are just as trouble free as any of my top Canons and Nikons. In fact with tens of thousands of pro shots made with my Sonys in all kinds of extreme weather and rugged situations across the US and Europe ,I have not had a single failure of any kind, not one. On a three week rugged trek across the Scotland Highlands, mostly in rainy conditions, my Sonys working perfectly. i never had to baby them at all,and they helped me deliver stunning professional images from my vision.

You may not believe it. but a growing number of top pros are switching and using Sonys in extreme wildlife and top sports situations and getting stunning shots in heat, cold, desert, rain,snow and more. The myth that mirrorless cant do anything and everything as well as Nikon and Canon DSLRs is only a myth now with the latest A9, A7RIII and A7III cameras and great mirrorless from Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus etc. . Take the blinders off and actually look and listen to pros that are using them and ditching their DLSRs from Canon and Nikon. I am one of those pros. Look at the links in my posts and see and hear a sampling of pros that have switched and are successfully using them from street photography to the extreme conditions at the Winter Olympics,and see their stunning professional photos. Cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtOIz_LT9SM&t=34s
https://petapixel.com/2018/01/23/photographer-david-burnett-switches-sony-40-years-shooting-canon/
https://petapixel.com/2017/05/09/shooting-kentucky-derby-20fps-sony-a9/
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/sony-a9-s-features-unmatched-at-u-s--open/
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/sports-pro-s-gear-for-the-winter-games-in-south-korea/
https://alphasports.pro/
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/why-i-switched-canon-sony-colby-brown
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/why-i-switched-nikon-sony-matt-kloskowski
https://alphauniverse.com/artisans/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMP4vJr6cGk
http://sonyaddict.com/2018/03/31/luke-massey-swapped-the-canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-for-the-sony-a9/ Swapping a Canon EOS 1D X Mark II for a Sony A9 - We speak to wildlife photographer Luke Massey

All of this is not going to be overnight, but it is happening and more and more pros and amateurs are switching to mirrorless every day and NOT just to Sony. Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus and others even Leica are making great mirrorless. Those are the facts. You can believe the truth or not. Cheers

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

I could go for silent if it truly is a global shutter, but nothing in my world happens in 0.05 second. My camera does 6fps, but most of the time I have it down to 3fps if I use burst mode at all - I just don't need the bother of a bunch of nearly identical images to page through.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

"Mirrorless, mirrorless, on the wall, who's the fairest camera of all?"

But seriously.... When it comes to sports shooting, there are a number of reasons mirrorless don't cut it.

1. By they time you hang a 70-200/2.8, 300mm or 400mm lens on the front of it, the small size and lighter weight of a mirrorless camera is more a liability, than a benefit. The diminutive camera doesn't balance well with the bigger lenses that sports shooting pros are likely to be using. it's made even worse if you also need to use an adapter, since there aren't many 70-200/2.8, 300/2.8 or 400/2.8 being made for mirrorless yet.

2. For the speed and action of sports, an optical viewfinder and a separate phase detection sensor array are still superior to an electronic viewfinder and dual pixel phase detection embedded in the imaging sensor. Even worse would be a mirrorless without any viewfinder... ever tried to shoot sports using Live View and holding the same at arms length... in bright sunlight? Rots of ruck with that, Scooby!

3. Limited lens selection (already touched on that above), especially of the types that sports photogs need and use... Nikon and Canon each have around 90 lenses in their systems (roughly 1/3 are crop only in each). Pentax and Sony... around 40 (Sony is actually less because some are A-mount, some are E-mount). Few MILC systems have more than 25 or 30 to choose among tops, and some have only 10 or fewer. Also, due to their current popularity, they also tend to be more expensive, both the MILC itself and the lenses to designed for use upon it, when compared to the most comparable DSLR gear.

For example, Sony is seeking to compete with pro-grade cameras that are up to the task.... bBut so far has only three lenses in E-mount that are remotely "sports oriented": two 70-200s and a 100-400mm. Where are the 300/2.8, 400/2.8, 500/4 and 600/4 we see on the sidelines at the Super Bowl? Okay, Sony's got 300/2.8 and 500/4... in A-mount, that can be used on their MILC with an adapter. In comparison.... for pro sports shooters Canon's got four 70-200s, 100-400, two 300mm, three 400mm, 500mm, 600mm, 800mm, plus a 200-400 with a built-in/matched 1.4X. Nikon has a similar range to choose among (some differences: 80-400 & 200-500, instead of 100-400... only two 70-200s... and their 200-400 doesn't have a built in TC). Fourteen or fifteen lenses with Nikon or Canon... versus five in the Sony line (two of which require adapters to be used on their MILC).

4. Also, tiny cameras mean tiny batteries with very limited shots-per-charge... and there are few accessories such as battery grips to help the situation. I use a grip on my DLSRs that allow me to get around 2500 shots with a pair of batteries. And some day's shooting an 8 or 10 hour event I shoot more than that and need to swap batteries once. Many MILC only get 600, 500, 400 or even 300 shots per charge. It takes "juice" to run those electronic viewfinders and LCD screens (the screen on my DSLR is turned off... I only see image reviews on demand, to save power). With many MILC I'd be changing batteries 4 to 6 times in a day's shoot! (P.S. I looked for info about shots per charge for the Sony batteries, but can't find any.... Both Canon and Nikon list CIPA standard battery test results for their cameras, which I can beat by a large margin with some simple power saving tricks.)

5. Battery grips also provide a secondary set of controls for vertical orientation. If you shoot a lot of vertical/portrait oriented shots, it's a lot more comfortable than continually "twisting" your wrist to get the shot. I'd estimate about half my shots are horiz., half vert. Someone shooting for a print magazine might take a lot more verticals. There simply aren't many vertical/battery grips available for MILC yet. Fujifilm makes a really nice one... for one of their camera models. Sony makes a nice one too... for their full frame camera. It costs $50 to $100 more than the most expensive Canon battery grips. As far as I can tell, Sony doesn't make one for their APS-C camera (the format I prefer to shoot sports), but Vello does? (3rd party... lower cost... but build quality? reliability? durability?)

6. In general, with a few exceptions, MILC are simply more amateur to advanced amateur-oriented... so far. Manufacturers have treated them more as a "step up" from point n shoot, but below mid-grade, pro-grade DSLRs. More automation, less direct access to the camera controls that pros tend to want and use. Canon sure did with their M-series, but appears to have begun changing that. So did Nikon and Pentax with their essentially failed MILC lines. They were probably all paranoid about eroding their own DSLR sales (which happened anyway, just to other brands instead.) Sony, Fuji, Oly and Panasonic all treated at least some their MILC models more seriously. Still, especially on the smaller MILC, there's limited "real estate"... not a lot of room for all the buttons and dials that a pro-grade camera typically uses. I've heard and read more than one MILC user complain about too small controls that are easy to miss or mistake. A sports shooter is often making adjustments by touch and familiarity with the controls, while keeping their eye to the viewfinder. That would be hard to do with some MILC.

7. As new people move into the field of sports photography and the manufacturers make more pro-oriented models and expand their MILC-specific lens lines, I'm sure we'll see more folks using them now that they offer AF performance and other features that are necessary. But seasoned pros aren't quick to jump brands (unless someone else is paying for their gear... an employer or a sponsor). They have a lot of money invested... not to mention the learning curve of any new system. Pro sports shooters often have to react instantly and the ability to do that only comes with a lot of familiarity with thei gear. Switching brands means "starting over", in a lot of ways. And it can be very expensive!

Besides, we're stubborn curmudgeons who don't like all that new fangled stuff!

Actually, I think MILC are cool and really want one... for some things (street photography, travel, vintage manual focus lenses). But SPORTS is NOT one of them. I'll keep my DSLRs for that. The MILC I'll get will be more for fun... so it's not gotten high priority.

gwilliams6

amfoto we have been here before. Did you even look at the links I posted above from pros that have switched and are making their livings with mirrorless cameras around the world. ? In spite of all your arguments why it wont happen, it is ALREADY happening with top sports and other pros switching and successfully using mirrorless. Reality can be hard for some to accept. lol

Watch and listen here as Tony Northrup puts to rest all the false points and old myths you make in your post. And Tony talks about why pros ARE switching. BTW Tony is a longtime and still current DSLR user, but tests and reviews all gear. Tony and Chelsea Northrup have nearly one million subscribers and are respected worldwide in the photography field for their thorough research and knowledge. .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1IyIE2gAL4&t=169s

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Hey, the attach didn’t work!!!

I think both ML and 4/3

(Download)

kenArchi Loc: Seal Beach, CA

As an amateur I have my Oly Emd 10. When I work as a 'pro' I take my big guns.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

It's an interesting claim, and I'm glad you're having a positive experience, but I've also read at least a dozen posts recently from Sony users who are less than thrilled with the support they're getting. And of course more and more Pros are starting to move to Sony. No surprise there, Sony has packed a lot of technology in these new cameras resulting in seriously superior images.

However, some pros, especially those with larger hands, have found using these new smaller bodies physically less comfortable then larger more traditional bodies. In the end while some pros, semi-pros, and advanced amateurs may be starting to move to the Sony platform, they are not moving to that system anywhere remotely near the rate that some people imply they are. Ultimately Sony may very well own the market, but right now they are still a niche player. All one has to do is go to a professional shoot to see that. Generally Canons, followed by Nikons, abound, along with a few other cameras from other manufacturers.

gwilliams6

I have large hands, I am 6 ft 4 inch and 250 lbs. I have no issue with the smaller bodies. I also sometimes use the battery grips which do give a more big DSLR body feel and balance. Once you shoot with the smaller bodies for a while, you adjust and come to appreciate their less weight. If camera makers didn't need to have large bodies to house that large and bulky mirror system, we would all have grown up and been accustomed to lighter, more compact cameras.

Before motor drives were offered for SLRs decades ago, all pros shot with camera bodies the same size as present day full-frame mirrorless cameras. Leicas and Nikon Fs covered every war and event and sports venue with small bodies and made award-winning shots, one frame at a time.

And all the latest reports I have from my fellow pros around the world is that Sony is fast approaching or matching the Pro Support of Nikon and Canon. And my Nikon and Canon fellow pros are starting to complain about a decline in what Nikon and Canon used to do for them, unless they pay more in fees. Nothing completely happens overnight, but I feel well taken care of by Sony Pro support. Cheers

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Here is an interesting recent article about the camera market in Japan itself, from DPReview. The quote below is from the first paragraph of the article. Note that this article refers to the Japanese market only where mirrorless cameras may not have not caught on as fast as they have in Europe and North America.

"The 2018 Japan BCN camera rankings are in, and they show that (surprise, surprise) Canon is still veritably dominating the DSLR space with 61.1% marketshare, only a slight drop from its previous 63.3% share. More impressive is Canon's performance in the mirrorless category where Canon took the number 2 position, hitting 21.3% versus Sony's 20.2%. Olympus beat both to take top slot in mirrorless at 27.7%, though, a small increase over its previous 26.8% marketshare."

https://m.dpreview.com/news/0966656912/2018-japan-bcn-camera-rankings-canon-dominates-dslrs-tops-sony-in-mirrorless

gwilliams6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1IyIE2gAL4&t=169s

Truly everyone in this thread should take the 34 minutes and watch this Tony Northrup video released on 4/18. Tony really explains in depth the differences and advantages and disadvantages of DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras, and talks about the future coming with Nikon and Canon getting into the fullframe mirrorless market. I personally don't always agree with Tony on some subjects but I respect his thorough research ethics (he is an educated scientist), as well as a seasoned professional photography . It is an up to date review that takes into account the latest gear out there to erase old truths and lingering myths. Cheers

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

The weight decrease of a Sony professional body is hardly a noticable benefit if you're using a long lens like a 400mm prime lens. I acknowledge it might be a benefit for some when using a more compact shorter-range zoom or a small prime. And as I said I eventually would expect Sony to become a major player in the market given the the image quality of their latest cameras and the direction they're moving in. But right now, at this point in time, they are still a niche player.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

This is just bait to start a long argument, and you did. But I think is not deserving of a serious reply.

gwilliams6

When fulltime pros are switching and making our living with them ,like myself, they are no longer a niche. Please watch the entire Tony Northrup video and all the videos I linked from pros,please and be enlightened. Camera makers Sony ,Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus,Leica and all the lens makers including Sigma, Tamron, Samyang/Rokinon, Meike, Laowa , and all the strobe and gimbal and still and video product makers do not consider this a niche market, IT IS THE MARKET. And Nikon and Canon now realize they cant ignore the facts of the market and will release their own full-frame mirrorless systems later this year or early next. It is compete at the highest level ,or get left further behind.

I will look up the video and post it that shows a pro weighing his DSLR system vs his mirrorless system. Even though longer focal length lenses have to physically be bigger and heavier, especially f2.8 size, less so at f4 max aperture size, the total weight savings is still significant. It is saving many older and young pros' backs when shooting an all-day wedding or long sporting event. I have had two major back surgeries from decades of carrying heavy DSLRS and lenses. My back truly appreciates the much lower overall weight of my mirrorless system with comparable lenses and bodies. Cheers