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Steps To Shooting in Manual
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Dec 29, 2017 16:40:30   #
imagesintime Loc: small town, mid-America
 
dadcowell wrote:
OK
I'm trying to move over to shooting in manual.
First off, I know there is an abundance of information relating to learning how to shoot in manual mode, but I'm looking for the condensed version in one place.
I'm hoping that one of the UHH members has felt the same way and can direct me to a great book or other write-up that can take me through the steps. I'd like to be able to learn how to use the camera's Histogram feature to improve my skills.
I own the Canon T3-I, the Speedlite 430 EX II and would like to eventually be able to just pick up the camera and quickly set it to the best settings.

Can you help?

Bill
OK br I'm trying to move over to shooting in manua... (show quote)


Forgive me, Bill, i came to this late and have not read all 4 pages.

All the ideas bout the technical stuff are good...exposure triangle, f-stops, iso...but there is only one way to learn how to do it.

Shoot.

Set up a scene. Shoot it with every every f-stop, shutter speed and iso combination. Change the light and do it again. Find another scene...do it again. I have cards full of this.

Eventually you should be able to walk into a picture opportunity, grab your camera, instinctively judge the lighting and set it for the depth of field or motion effect you want and be within a half of stop with your results.

Everybody wants to think there is some magic formula...there is not.

You have to shoot.

With digital the film and processing is cheap.

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Dec 29, 2017 17:01:39   #
Kozan Loc: Trenton Tennessee
 
dadcowell wrote:
OK
I'm trying to move over to shooting in manual.
First off, I know there is an abundance of information relating to learning how to shoot in manual mode, but I'm looking for the condensed version in one place.
I'm hoping that one of the UHH members has felt the same way and can direct me to a great book or other write-up that can take me through the steps. I'd like to be able to learn how to use the camera's Histogram feature to improve my skills.
I own the Canon T3-I, the Speedlite 430 EX II and would like to eventually be able to just pick up the camera and quickly set it to the best settings.

Can you help?

Bill
OK br I'm trying to move over to shooting in manua... (show quote)


Your best bet is to watch the Exposure Triangle Videos by Mark Wallace of Adorama TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eVjUrY9a9c

After watching his videos you'll be an expert. Maybe.

Kozan

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Dec 29, 2017 17:18:49   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
Hi Bill, I bet by now your thinking I might as well just stay on auto! This video should help you understand all of the settings. When they get to explain the aperture settings and depth of field it will help you a lot if you memorise the numbers and aperture size. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYbTEB2mQX8

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Dec 29, 2017 17:33:03   #
Whuff Loc: Marshalltown, Iowa
 
Peterff wrote:
I'll answer on behalf of SS, since I have a T3i. Look at page 99 of your camera manual. First set your camera to a specific ISO, say 200. The manual explains how to set shutter speed and specific aperture settings. I would start with something like f/8, which will be displayed in the view finder, along with the shutter speed, and the ISO setting. In between the aperture value and the ISO value is a scale which displays a little arrow like symbol - the exposure level mark, see page 99. As you rotate the main control dial you should see the shutter speed values change, and the exposure level mark will move to the left or to the right. Dead center is what the meter thinks is the correct exposure. You can also use this to deliberately over or under expose. This will give you full manual control of exposure on a T3i.

This exposure level mark emulates the type of 'matched needle' exposure information in older cameras such as the Canon FTb, usually seen on the right hand side of the viewfinder where the center point was the 'correct' exposure, the needle up was over exposed and down was underexposed, hence "Then line up the meter's needle".

Does that help sufficiently? If so, try it out and go out and take a bunch of pictures, look at the results and the settings in the EXIF data. Especially look at the mistakes, don't delete them in camera, keep them so that you look at them in your software - once again I will recommend raw+JPEG and Canon DPP since it reproduces the camera settings on the computer. That will probably accelerate your learning process to using the camera in manual mode. It will also help you understand how all the auto modes work.

Once you have mastered manual exposure, don't avoid the auto modes, they're useful and the camera does a pretty good job, but it helps if you understand what the camera is doing in each of those modes. As others have suggested, don't try to play with manual focus at the same time. Manual exposure is the most useful, except in a few specialized circumstances, play with manual focus if you wish later.

I see you've just discovered that from your recent post while I was typing!
I'll answer on behalf of SS, since I have a T3i. ... (show quote)


Well how about that! You can teach an old dog new tricks. I read the manual a couple of times when my T3i was new but haven’t fully read it in years. I only use manual in the instances when Av and Tv will not work. When I use those functions, the meter is basically taken out of service as far as functioning in this way, so I was surprised to read your response so I of course had to test this out. Perhaps I will now experiment more with manual exposure.

Walt

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Dec 29, 2017 17:58:15   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
dadcowell wrote:
OK
I'm trying to move over to shooting in manual.
First off, I know there is an abundance of information relating to learning how to shoot in manual mode, but I'm looking for the condensed version in one place.
I'm hoping that one of the UHH members has felt the same way and can direct me to a great book or other write-up that can take me through the steps. I'd like to be able to learn how to use the camera's Histogram feature to improve my skills.
I own the Canon T3-I, the Speedlite 430 EX II and would like to eventually be able to just pick up the camera and quickly set it to the best settings.

Can you help?

Bill
OK br I'm trying to move over to shooting in manua... (show quote)




Suggest looking up a UK wedding photographer by the name of Richard Barley on youtube. He uses a Canon 5D and a Canon 550. He has a very simple and easily understood technique shooting in manual mode explained in several segments. Start with "12 years shooting with the 5D" . I think you will like it.

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Dec 29, 2017 18:12:44   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Whuff wrote:
Well how about that! You can teach an old dog new tricks. I read the manual a couple of times when my T3i was new but haven’t fully read it in years. I only use manual in the instances when Av and Tv will not work. When I use those functions, the meter is basically taken out of service as far as functioning in this way, so I was surprised to read your response so I of course had to test this out. Perhaps I will now experiment more with manual exposure.Walt


Glad it helped! I do not use manual very often, primarily Tv, Av, and exposure compensation, but having first learned with a Russian Zenit E, and then a Canon AE-1 which was shutter priority auto or manual, the manual mode is pretty ingrained in my system. One of the reasons I like Canon is that they have kept their control systems pretty consistent from the introduction of the AE-1 in 1976, so perhaps I don't like too many new tricks either!

Anyhow, enjoy your experiments, and Happy New Year.

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Dec 29, 2017 19:42:28   #
BebuLamar
 
Peterff wrote:
Glad it helped! I do not use manual very often, primarily Tv, Av, and exposure compensation, but having first learned with a Russian Zenit E, and then a Canon AE-1 which was shutter priority auto or manual, the manual mode is pretty ingrained in my system. One of the reasons I like Canon is that they have kept their control systems pretty consistent from the introduction of the AE-1 in 1976, so perhaps I don't like too many new tricks either!

Anyhow, enjoy your experiments, and Happy New Year.
Glad it helped! I do not use manual very often, pr... (show quote)


Happy new year sir! Just to nitpick a bit. The Zenit E doesn't have the meter so there is no meter to line up. You simply set whatever aperture and shutter speed you think are right. The AE-1 when you go manual and match the meter you will have to look in the viewfinder to see where the needle is pointing at and then take the camera down and set the lens aperture ring to the same f number. So neither resemble the modern metering system in the Canon DSLR.

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Dec 29, 2017 21:02:52   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Happy new year sir! Just to nitpick a bit. The Zenit E doesn't have the meter so there is no meter to line up. You simply set whatever aperture and shutter speed you think are right. The AE-1 when you go manual and match the meter you will have to look in the viewfinder to see where the needle is pointing at and then take the camera down and set the lens aperture ring to the same f number. So neither resemble the modern metering system in the Canon DSLR.


Just to "nit pick" your "nit pick" neither of your comments are completely accurate. The Zenit E does not have TTL metering, and nothing to see in the view finder, but it does have a built in selenium meter, and it does have a mechanism to align with the meter needle to get the exposure parameters on the top of the body.

Also, the AE-1 does not operate exactly as you describe. With the AE-1 you have to take the lens off the A setting, and put the camera into stopped down mode - so it isn't open aperture metering - but you can see the results via matched needle in the viewfinder just by rotating the aperture ring. It is similar to the FTb I believe. This is not dissimilar to the T3i example I gave, but the T3i does everything at open aperture, as would other EOS cameras.

I still have both cameras (Zenit E and AE-1), both in working order, and have just verified my comments about the AE-1 with the camera by my desk. It even has film in it! I even have the manual somewhere, which I'm sure describes the procedure I have mentioned. The image below should be sufficient for the Zenit E. Hopefully you will take my word for it!

Now I agree that the Zenit E doesn't resemble a modern camera, but in many ways the AE-1 actually does, and was one of the first to provide 'modern' camera characteristics, a bit of a hybrid between the old and the new. The A-1 brought in the choice of automation modes in 1978 (P, Av, Tv), and the T90 set the body design standard for modern SLRs and DSLRs in 1986. In 1987 the EOS system set the standard for autofocus SLRs and DSLRs. Ooh, I just found an AE-1 manual online: http://web.mit.edu/adorai/Public/Canon_AE-1_Manual.pdf , check it out!

Anyhow, thanks for questioning / "nit picking", I believe it is important to provide accurate information if we can, and none of us should object to being challenged or corrected by someone with better or additional information.

So, a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to you and yours good Sir! Take the very best of care.



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Dec 29, 2017 21:21:49   #
BebuLamar
 
Peterff wrote:
Just to "nit pick" your "nit pick" neither of your comments are completely accurate. The Zenit E does not have TTL metering, and nothing to see in the view finder, but it does have a built in selenium meter, and it does have a mechanism to align with the meter needle to get the exposure parameters on the top of the body.

Also, the AE-1 does not operate exactly as you describe. With the AE-1 you have to take the lens off the A setting, and put the camera into stopped down mode - so it isn't open aperture metering - but you can see the results via matched needle in the viewfinder just by rotating the aperture ring. It is similar to the FTb I believe. This is not dissimilar to the T3i example I gave, but the T3i does everything at open aperture, as would other EOS cameras.

I still have both cameras (Zenit E and AE-1), both in working order, and have just verified my comments about the AE-1 with the camera by my desk. It even has film in it! I even have the manual somewhere, which I'm sure describes the procedure I have mentioned. The image below should be sufficient for the Zenit E. Hopefully you will take my word for it!

Now I agree that the Zenit E doesn't resemble a modern camera, but in many ways the AE-1 actually does, and was one of the first to provide 'modern' camera characteristics, a bit of a hybrid between the old and the new. The A-1 brought in the choice of automation modes in 1978 (P, Av, Tv), and the T90 set the body design standard for modern SLRs and DSLRs in 1986. In 1987 the EOS system set the standard for autofocus SLRs and DSLRs.

Anyhow, thanks for questioning / "nit picking", I believe it is important to provide accurate information if we can, and none of us should object to being challenged or corrected by someone with better or additional information.

So, a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to you and yours good Sir! Take the very best of care.
Just to "nit pick" your "nit pick&q... (show quote)


I don't have the Zenit E so I am not so sure but you made me put in my $10 battery into my AE-1. The procedure you said only work with the FL lenses. With the FD lens you meter it at full aperture. You can take the aperture ring off A and it flashes M like you do something stupid (hihi, I think Canon considered whoever used manual mode stupid) but the needle is pointing at the apeture recommended by the camera. If you point the camera at the same subject and the lighting doesn't change then only the shutter speed change would result in meter reading changes. You would then set your aperture on the ring at the same f stop indicated by the meter needle.

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Dec 29, 2017 21:31:51   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I don't have the Zenit E so I am not so sure but you made me put in my $10 battery into my AE-1. The procedure you said only work with the FL lenses. With the FD lens you meter it at full aperture. You can take the aperture ring off A and it flashes M like you do something stupid (hihi, I think Canon considered whoever used manual mode stupid) but the needle is pointing at the apeture recommended by the camera. If you point the camera at the same subject and the lighting doesn't change then only the shutter speed change would result in meter reading changes. You would then set your aperture on the ring at the same f stop indicated by the meter needle.
I don't have the Zenit E so I am not so sure but y... (show quote)


No Bebu, I just tested mine with a FDn 35-105mm f/3.5 zoom. It works with any FL / FD / Fdn lens. I converted my FL 55mm f/1.2 to EF mount so I can't test that, but I have breechlock and bayonet FD/FDn lenses that work exactly as I described. Did you push in the stop down button on your AE-1 body? It has to be in stop down mode. Look back at the earlier post. I just added an online AE-1 manual.

I fully appreciate you questioning me on this, in the quest of accurate information, and I'm not trying to have to be right, but I very strongly believe that I am in this instance, and I have the cameras and lenses available to test it! I respect your knowledge and motivation, so if you have an AE-1 which you clearly do, and any kind of FD/FDn lens please try it out and see if you can replicate my findings.

Take care, and thanks.

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Dec 29, 2017 21:38:27   #
BebuLamar
 
Peterff wrote:
No Bebu, I just tested mine with a FDn 35-105mm f/3.5 zoom. It works with any FL / FD / Fdn lens. I converted my FL 55mm f/1.2 to EF mount so I can't test that, but I have breechlock and bayonet FD/FDn lenses that work exactly as I described. Did you push in the stop down button on your AE-1 body? It has to be in stop down mode. Look back at the earlier post. I just added an online AE-1 manual.

I fully appreciate you questioning me on this, in the quest of accurate information, and I'm not trying to have to be right, but I very strongly believe that I am in this instance, and I have the cameras and lenses available to test it! I respect your knowledge and motivation, so if you have an AE-1 which you clearly do, and any kind of FD/FDn lens please try it out and see if you can replicate my findings.

Take care, and thanks.
No Bebu, I just tested mine with a FDn 35-105mm f/... (show quote)


When I pushed the stop down button then changing the apeture does change the needle but if you set it for the meter indication at the mark in the center you're over exposure.

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Dec 29, 2017 21:57:58   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
BebuLamar wrote:
When I pushed the stop down button then changing the aperture does change the needle but if you set it for the meter indication at the mark in the center you're over exposure.


How do you know that it is an over exposure? What is your comparison method? However, I think you have a point, I've just checked the manual that I posted and it does say that the match needle method with FD lenses will give an inaccurate exposure reading. So, although the method works, it will give inaccurate results apparently, which is challenging to test with film! I might do so just for grins, since I have film in my AE-1, but I really appreciate your diligence in raising this. I don't really recall using stopped down metering much when the AE-1 was my main camera, just changing the shutter speed dial until I got the aperture that I wanted displayed in the view finder.

Thanks for checking and correcting me on this, I really do appreciate it.

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Dec 29, 2017 22:02:00   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
This Web tutorial may help: https://clickitupanotch.com/shooting-in-manual-the-basics/
dadcowell wrote:
OK
I'm trying to move over to shooting in manual.
First off, I know there is an abundance of information relating to learning how to shoot in manual mode, but I'm looking for the condensed version in one place.
I'm hoping that one of the UHH members has felt the same way and can direct me to a great book or other write-up that can take me through the steps. I'd like to be able to learn how to use the camera's Histogram feature to improve my skills.
I own the Canon T3-I, the Speedlite 430 EX II and would like to eventually be able to just pick up the camera and quickly set it to the best settings.

Can you help?

Bill
OK br I'm trying to move over to shooting in manua... (show quote)

Reply
Dec 29, 2017 22:03:47   #
GregWCIL Loc: Illinois
 
dadcowell wrote:
Wow!
Thanks so much for all your suggestions!!.

I had a basic understanding of the relationship among Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO. Your comments really helped to advance my understanding. For example, I just took my camera outside. I put it in M, set the ISO for 100 (It is sunny and cold here in Myrtle Beach), set the Aperture for F16 and adjusted the meter (Which through your comments, I just discovered) with the wheel till it centered. That brought my speed to 1/60. I think that the meter, as dumb as it sounds to the experts, was the connection that I was missing. Prior to today, although I knew that those three points of the triangle were dependent each other, I did not realize, however, that I had a simple tool (the meter) to bring these three into line with the light available.

I knew I found the right place to learn. Thanks again to all.

Bill
Wow! br Thanks so much for all your suggestions!!.... (show quote)


Bill, lots of good advice here and you are a quick study. But you aren't done yet. Even though you shot in manual and centered your meter, that doesn't always guarantee correct exposure. Your meter can be fooled.
So now we get to the last part of your question - how to use the histogram. By reviewing your image with the histogram you can see if the exposure is more or less centered. I'll let others expand on proper use of it.
But even then you may not be done. The histogram can fool you too. "Oh no," you say. Yes the histogram shows overall exposure for the entire frame. But you may be shooting a white swan against dark trees. The bird is a long way away and small in the frame. The meter might have averaged the scene and the histogram recorded the same average. On average your shot might be perfect while your white swan is way overexposed.

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Dec 29, 2017 22:05:34   #
BebuLamar
 
Peterff wrote:
How do you know that it is an over exposure? What is your comparison method? However, I think you have a point, I've just checked the manual that I posted and it does say that the match needle method with FD lenses will give an inaccurate exposure reading. So, although the method works, it will give inaccurate results apparently, which is challenging to test with film! I might do so just for grins, since I have film in my AE-1, but I really appreciate your diligence in raising this. I don't really recall using stopped down metering much when the AE-1 was my main camera, just changing the shutter speed dial until I got the aperture that I wanted displayed in the view finder.

Thanks for checking and correcting me on this, I really do appreciate it.
How do you know that it is an over exposure? What... (show quote)


Comparison by reading the exposure in auto. Also when in auto the exposure that it set is closed to the correct exposure determined independently using a meter.

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