tdekany Loc: Oregon

Of course! Just take the story of Noah.

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

Religious concepts, including the concept of God, are by definition metaphysical, meaning that they are above and beyond what we can observe or measure or concretely verify. There is no way to prove their truth or untruth in the way we usually prove things with evidence. There is no amount of logical argument that can substitute for the absence of concrete evidence. So, it usually comes down to what we were taught by family and culture, or later on it may be a matter of choice, as to what to believe or not. There are a few religious concepts that I choose to believe, but at the same time I admit that my beliefs may not ultimately be true. In the realm of religious beliefs I suggest the we need to live with some degree of uncertainty like we do with rest of life.

Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City

"I admit that my beliefs may not ultimately be true". Your point is made. You are wrong. See how easy that was.

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

P,S. Thetefore, we should support each other in this struggle to work out individually what to believe or not to believe, rather than to criticize or try to prove each other wrong.

Yankeepapa6 Loc: New York City

Now you are copping out. That was never part of your original premise. I am saying goodbye.

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

Actually no, with regard to religious beliefs, I don't accept any other person's judgment that I am right or wrong. My major point was to show that there is no way to prove that a metaphysical concept is true or not.

krl48 Loc: NY, PA now SC

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." Christopher Hitchens

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

Before you exit, perhaps you could explain how I am copping out.

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

Agree with your quote, but I would add that one can also accept or believe without evidence -- that's what the word "faith" means to me.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

How about "peace on earth and goodwill to all men?"

Any objections?

Mike

oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon

No objections -- to all peoples.

blackest Loc: Ireland

It is never possible to fully prove a negative.

However christianity started with jesus around 2000 years ago, so prior to 2000 years ago did everyone go to hell? Since then do non christians go to hell? or perhaps only baptists or mormans or catholics are excused hell? The religion you follow is largely down to your birth if your parents are catholic you may be raised a catholic, if you are born to a jewish father and catholic mother who knows? But certainly most people don't choose their religion. Now either God is a monster or he accepts all sorts regardless of religion.

If he is a monster then I choose hell. If not then I figure I have a fair chance of being a decent enough person. If he doesn't exist then all that remains of me after my death are likely posts like this and hopefully a few photographs.

Religion has positives but often it is used to allow people to accept the bad things in life, by suffering on earth you get your reward in heaven.
But lets say there isn't a heaven, this is a one time shot you get so many years die and its the end of you. Maybe we should be doing more to improve things for the living and the yet to be born. Shouldn't we do that anyway?

I don't have a problem with people of faith because on the whole they try to be good people.

Any ways enjoy your christmas or solstice or holidays, what ever you choose.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

I hope most of us can realize that, in the sight and hearing of whatever deity we may choose to worship (including none, if you so choose), we have turned a member's request for advice into a bar room brawl and, like our public posture indicates, left a fellow member, whom we have all agreed to help, with a minimal number of options. If we are devout Christians, we have failed to follow the Great Commandment. If we are ardent atheists, we have abandoned our beliefs to prostelyze others. Shame on all of us!

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

It was possible to have faith looking forward. By its nature the object of faith cannot be analyzed using tools of logic, so this discussion is guaranteed to go nowhere. I have nothing else to say on this subject.

The OP should go to the appropriate section to view and to contribute the type of images he is interested in.