My canon pictures were all blurry (Page 9): Yes I am just a bit-I could have not said anything bad about papa, but make that a Pi**ed off hypocrite. If he had stopped at one post I...

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

AlfredU wrote:

Unfortunately, your response show you to be a bit of a hypocrite.

Yes I am just a bit-I could have not said anything bad about papa, but make that a Pi**ed off hypocrite. If he had stopped at one post I would have just ignored him. But he had to raise the bet after being encouraged by the "atta boy" entries.
And you were one of papa's "atta boy" posters.

So go off and do what ever. Don't waste your time on me. I have been disliked by and ignored experts. Once after a go around at a faculty meeting another teacher said "You know, you can really intimidate people at times." I took that one as a compliment, the other "teacher" I had just "intimidated" deserved it. A classroom bully using the relative position of teacher to student to make himself feel powerful for no good reason but that he could do it.

Have a nice day and be more careful who or what you give "atta boys" to in future.

AlfredU Loc: Mooresville, NC

robertjerl wrote:

Yes I am just a bit-I could have not said anything... (show quote)

No, I didn't give him an attaboy. I merely agreed with his sentiment that people should show some effort at helping themselves. I too was in the education profession for 35 years and had little patience for students who asked questions without making any honest effort on their own part. I think all of our members deserve to be treated with respect. I also think our members need to be responsible enough to meet us halfway when they ask for help.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

AlfredU wrote:

No, I didn't give him an attaboy. I merely agreed with his sentiment that people should show some effort at helping themselves. I too was in the education profession for 35 years and had little patience for students who asked questions without making any honest effort on their own part. I think all of our members deserve to be treated with respect. I also think our members need to be responsible enough to meet us halfway when they ask for help.

My mother mastered a manual focus Canon “AE-1 Program” when she was around 60 years old. She had the advantage of help at the local camera store {no longer there} where she purchased it, and the incentive created by several young grandchildren. I say this in tribute to someone, now in her 90s and living in Assisted Living.

But today, in a world dominated by WWW, we cannot expect this of everyone; we need to be more helpful and tolerant.

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

rehess wrote:

My mother mastered a manual focus Canon “AE-1 Program” when she was around 60 years old. She had the advantage of help at the local camera store {no longer there} where she purchased it, and the incentive created by several young grandchildren. I say this in tribute to someone, now in her 90s and living in Assisted Living.

But today, in a world dominated by WWW, we cannot expect this of everyone; we need to be more helpful and tolerant.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

AlfredU wrote:

No, I didn't give him an attaboy. I merely agreed with his sentiment that people should show some effort at helping themselves. I too was in the education profession for 35 years and had little patience for students who asked questions without making any honest effort on their own part. I think all of our members deserve to be treated with respect. I also think our members need to be responsible enough to meet us halfway when they ask for help.

I certainly don't want to get into the middle of an argument between you and robertjeri especially because I haven't read all your back and forth posts. I can say that l've generally found him to be a reasonable, friendly and evenhanded. However.I'm responding to you now because your latest post struck a chord with me.

I too find it sometimes very frustrating when people ask questions that they could easily, and sometimes more quickly, answer on their own. There are two possible reasons for this. First, the expectation by some that others will simply do the work for them. The other reason is that there are a large number of computer users who are still fairly computer illiterate and simply lack the experience and skills needs to perform a successful query. I've seen it all too often when people indicate their Google searches failed to come up with results they were looking for, and which I'm able to find in seconds. Unfortunately, I also think that the availability of knowledgeable people on this site makes it too easy for many people to not have to take personal responsibility. That may be a sign of the times with people wanting immediate gratification while expending minimal personal effort.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

AlfredU wrote:

No, I didn't give him an attaboy. I merely agreed with his sentiment that people should show some effort at helping themselves. I too was in the education profession for 35 years and had little patience for students who asked questions without making any honest effort on their own part. I think all of our members deserve to be treated with respect. I also think our members need to be responsible enough to meet us halfway when they ask for help.

OK, I will take you at your word on that. But you should have said something about the way he worded his post with all the stated or implied insults about lazy and or unintelligent. Suggesting a reading of the manual is not bad of itself, in fact a good idea*, it is the way he did it with the insults thrown in. You said nothing about that and from what I have seen of papa's posts since he appeared on the forum he takes lack of calling him on his attitude and insults as an "atta boy" and approval of the behavior.

This was only upperhay's second thread, a newbie and obviously lost in tech land. Look at her first post in July. Early 80s woman who only used P&S cameras before and was totally lost over what went wrong with her new "good" camera. She obviously thought that setting the camera on Auto would make it just like her P&S. She had no clue that the lens had a Manual Focus-Auto Focus switch that could be in the wrong position. Those P&S she was used to do not have the ability to turn AF off so she did not even know she should have checked it to see if it was on or off. Yes, some P&S have manual focus, but they are not all that common, usually expensive, and the "default" is always AF on.

* you are aware that some people are intimidated by manuals and are not inclined to read them much, esp camera and other tech subjects because they are written in geek speak by and for techno geeks (in Japanese geek speak in this case), then sort of simplified for the consumer and translated by people using buggy translation software who often seem to have only once watched a movie in English with subtitles and thus don't have a clue about how the translation should be.

And the whole thing about students/others making a self help effort before asking questions. I spent almost my whole career in East Los Angeles, a Hispanic area and notorious for poor schools over all. That was 15 years at a 7-9 Jr High and 13 at a Sr High in East LA and 6 years in other areas/schools-one of which was a multiple winner of the National Academic Decathlon title. I had so many students who were far below grade level in reading and skills (most had never been taught how to study and learn) that I took almost a month out of each school year to teach lessons on reading, using references, study habits and methods etc etc etc put into my usual history/geography/government courses as mini lessons, most in the first semester. I regularly had students drop by on open house night years later to tell me they had tried the methods I taught them, and "They worked!" The Jr High I taught at fed students to the Sr High school that was the one in the movie "Stand and Deliver" and a couple of those students that Jaime Escalante took to passing AP Calculus had been my history students. Then my last 13 years I was at that Sr High. (James A Garfield HS of the Los Angeles Unified School District in the East Los Angeles area)
So I have a bit different view of the process. Those students who had never been taught how to study included Gifted, AP, Computer Science Magnet Center and University Prep students (I did 7 years as the history teacher for that program at Garfield). Many of them very much above average intelligence but almost totally ignorant of organized study and learning skills.

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

Hear here! Interdependency is healthy, because people help others help themselves. Give a fish; create dependence.

James R wrote:

=========== br br I do agree with BOTH of You....... (show quote)

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

I calls 'em as I sees 'em. And someone in the grandstands screamed, "Kill the umpire". Seems you though are just another complacent one that's acclimated to under achievement in our society. It's easy to become jaded with all the stupidity that creates problems unnecessarily most anywhere one looks. I strive for excellence, so first step into a new world I school up. Someone did all that work to print an owner's manual to enable familiarizing oneself with all functions. What could be more useful? Methinks not your personal opinion. Maybe you'd do well to reread this post from the beginning to end if you want to educate yourself, friend.

RRS wrote:

You can be a nasty bugger can't you. I hope your avatar is a recent one and you are just a young spoiled little kid that needs to learn a lot about life, but I doubt it! You are of no help, so wait until you grow up and learn how to help and if by chance your already grown up then please pipe down.

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

It's the "dumb down" principle that's been prevailing since mom's went to work during WW II;
eroding intellect and creating dependence. My mom was a stay at home mother that was my best tutor in life, because she and my father taught me how to think for my self, search for knowledge and wisdom and share experience; which is rare, I find. I find joy in excelling at all things I do,
but that seems to be in short supply.

robertjerl wrote:

OK, I will take you at your word on that. But you should have said something about the way he worded his post with all the stated or implied insults about lazy and or unintelligent. Suggesting a reading of the manual is not bad of itself, in fact a good idea*, it is the way he did it with the insults thrown in. You said nothing about that and from what I have seen of papa's posts since he appeared on the forum he takes lack of calling him on his attitude and insults as an "atta boy" and approval of the behavior.

This was only upperhay's second thread, a newbie and obviously lost in tech land. Look at her first post in July. Early 80s woman who only used P&S cameras before and was totally lost over what went wrong with her new "good" camera. She obviously thought that setting the camera on Auto would make it just like her P&S. She had no clue that the lens had a Manual Focus-Auto Focus switch that could be in the wrong position. Those P&S she was used to do not have the ability to turn AF off so she did not even know she should have checked it to see if it was on or off. Yes, some P&S have manual focus, but they are not all that common, usually expensive, and the "default" is always AF on.

* you are aware that some people are intimidated by manuals and are not inclined to read them much, esp camera and other tech subjects because they are written in geek speak by and for techno geeks (in Japanese geek speak in this case), then sort of simplified for the consumer and translated by people using buggy translation software who often seem to have only once watched a movie in English with subtitles and thus don't have a clue about how the translation should be.

And the whole thing about students/others making a self help effort before asking questions. I spent almost my whole career in East Los Angeles, a Hispanic area and notorious for poor schools over all. That was 15 years at a 7-9 Jr High and 13 at a Sr High in East LA and 6 years in other areas/schools-one of which was a multiple winner of the National Academic Decathlon title. I had so many students who were far below grade level in reading and skills (most had never been taught how to study and learn) that I took almost a month out of each school year to teach lessons on reading, using references, study habits and methods etc etc etc put into my usual history/geography/government courses as mini lessons, most in the first semester. I regularly had students drop by on open house night years later to tell me they had tried the methods I taught them, and "They worked!" The Jr High I taught at fed students to the Sr High school that was the one in the movie "Stand and Deliver" and a couple of those students that Jaime Escalante took to passing AP Calculus had been my history students. Then my last 13 years I was at that Sr High. (James A Garfield HS of the Los Angeles Unified School District in the East Los Angeles area)
So I have a bit different view of the process. Those students who had never been taught how to study included Gifted, AP, Computer Science Magnet Center and University Prep students (I did 7 years as the history teacher for that program at Garfield). Many of them very much above average intelligence but almost totally ignorant of organized study and learning skills.

OK, I will take you at your word on that. But you... (show quote)

foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC

Why don't you cool it. You've made your point. But next time just skip the post. You won't get aggravated and neither with the poster (and others). Isn't that easier??? There are plenty of people on here who ARE willing to help her. After all, isn't that the purpose of this site???

papa wrote:

It's the "dumb down" principle that's been prevailing since mom's went to work during WW II;
eroding intellect and creating dependence. My mom was a stay at home mother that was my best tutor in life, because she and my father taught me how to think for my self, search for knowledge and wisdom and share experience; which is rare, I find. I find joy in excelling at all things I do,
but that seems to be in short supply.

papa Loc: Rio Dell, CA

I will help almost anyone help themselves. How would you help a hungry bum on the street?
Would you give 'em $5 to get inebriated or would you take 'em to lunch and offer a way to earn it. When I earn it I own it and that's my gift to me.

foathog wrote:

Why don't you cool it. You've made your point. But next time just skip the post. You won't get aggravated and neither with the poster (and others). Isn't that easier??? There are plenty of people on here who ARE willing to help her. After all, isn't that the purpose of this site???