Dec 7, 1941 (Page 4): To whom do you refer? Readers of this thread or yourself?

rps Loc: Muskoka Ontario Canada

To whom do you refer? Readers of this thread or yourself?

jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana

Uh, maybe they went the other way? Think about it.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

Hilarious!! Not the post....the responses!!

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Yankeepapa6 wrote:

I think the negative response was to your demeanor. Your use of stupid as to describe someone who disagrees with you. In your current post, you state" Intelligent people see the humor" Meaning every one by your assessment who doesn't agree with you is stupid. Give your father a, Semper Fi for me.

It is not disagreement it is the stupid and idiot response to a joke. Showing the person attacking me is lame minded and incredibly stupid to not see it as a joke. YouTube appear to be in the same category.

James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA

Yankeepapa6 wrote:

The point is it's....pointless. If you are naive to believe that, let me tell you about this bridge in Brooklyn I own and will sell it you; real cheap. Before WW2 I wonder if the Chinese people the Japanese killed or those they killed in Singapore thought the Japanese were innocent?

sirlensalot Loc: Arizona

The route does make for a nice smiley face on the map! lol

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

sirlensalot wrote:

The route does make for a nice smiley face on the map! lol

pendennis

Yankeepapa6 wrote:

At the time of the attack and for a few years befo... (show quote)

Churchill did want the U.S. in the war, but America, despite FDR's desires, was dead set against a European war. Organizations such as "America First" were railed at as being sympathetic to the Nazi's. Nothing was further from the truth. They were simply against an unnecessary war in Europe. Even John F. Kennedy belonged, and he could hardly be called pro-German.

It was widely known in official channels that the Japanese were going to move in probably two of three directions. The Japanese could have moved against Siberia, since they already held Manchuria. They also had Southeast Asia in their sights for the rubber goods and oil of the area. They also wanted to invade Australia, keeping the U.S. out of the war and using Australia as a base of operations. The Japanese may well have invaded Siberia had the German army been able to seize Moscow before November, which was the original Wehrmacht timetable. The Japanese could execute two invasion plans, but not three.

As to the knowledge by U.S. officials of a Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor. It has been categorically proven that Roosevelt did not know of the Japanese plans for an attack on Pearl Harbor. The War Plans department speculated on an attack at Hawaii, but they also speculated on attacks at a number of U.S. and foreign holdings in the Pacific. The Pacific Fleet was moved from San Diego, to Pearl Harbor as a means of being able to sortie them more quickly, if war broke out between the U.S and Japan. Another fact is that the Pacific Fleet had no inkling that Wake and Guam would be invaded. Otherwise why deliver American fighters to those islands? The U.S. had broken the Japanese diplomatic code, but the Pacific Fleet was denied its decoded transcripts, as it was doctrine at the time that diplomatic communications remain in the domain of the U.S. Department of State. There's also been made a great deal of noise about the Japanese "Bomb Plot" messages. These were the positions in Pearl Harbor of the U.S. Fleet, base on the observations of Japanese spies who communicated through the Japanese embassy in Hawaii. They were sent to the Japanese General Staff for use. The messages were sent using the J-19 code (broken by the State Department), but the Pacific Fleet never saw them since these were diplomatic messages.

The Japanese NEVER intended to invade anywhere east of Guadalcanal. They knew that the U.S. could not support the Australians if they lacked bases in the Philippines or the New Guinea Archipelago. The purpose of the Pearl Harbor attack was always to get the U.S. to negotiate for peace at the point of the katana, and keep Admiral Kimmel's battleships and carriers away from the Japanese fleet in Southeast Asia.

Hitler, while he occupied France, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc., had no intentions of fighting on a western front when he had his hands full with the USSR. His actions in the Atlantic and protestations against U.S aid to Great Britain were done to warn the U.S. against an attack on western Europe. When Pearl Harbor was attacked he actually did not declare war on the U.S. immediately. He had treaty obligations with the Italians and Japanese, and was pledged to join forces if attacked by anyone. When the U.S. declared war on December 8th, the U.S. was actually rash in our declaration. Since neither Germany nor Japan was able to mutually defend the other, the U.S. could have concentrated more resources against Japan earlier.

The late Admiral Edwin T. Layton was probably the foremost expert on Japanese intelligence, and he wrote a number of books on the subject.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

pendennis wrote:

Churchill did want the U.S. in the war, but America, despite FDR's desires, was dead set against a European war. Organizations such as "America First" were railed at as being sympathetic to the Nazi's. Nothing was further from the truth. They were simply against an unnecessary war in Europe. Even John F. Kennedy belonged, and he could hardly be called pro-German.

It was widely known in official channels that the Japanese were going to move in probably two of three directions. The Japanese could have moved against Siberia, since they already held Manchuria. They also had Southeast Asia in their sights for the rubber goods and oil of the area. They also wanted to invade Australia, keeping the U.S. out of the war and using Australia as a base of operations. The Japanese may well have invaded Siberia had the German army been able to seize Moscow before November, which was the original Wehrmacht timetable. The Japanese could execute two invasion plans, but not three.

As to the knowledge by U.S. officials of a Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor. It has been categorically proven that Roosevelt did not know of the Japanese plans for an attack on Pearl Harbor. The War Plans department speculated on an attack at Hawaii, but they also speculated on attacks at a number of U.S. and foreign holdings in the Pacific. The Pacific Fleet was moved from San Diego, to Pearl Harbor as a means of being able to sortie them more quickly, if war broke out between the U.S and Japan. Another fact is that the Pacific Fleet had no inkling that Wake and Guam would be invaded. Otherwise why deliver American fighters to those islands? The U.S. had broken the Japanese diplomatic code, but the Pacific Fleet was denied its decoded transcripts, as it was doctrine at the time that diplomatic communications remain in the domain of the U.S. Department of State. There's also been made a great deal of noise about the Japanese "Bomb Plot" messages. These were the positions in Pearl Harbor of the U.S. Fleet, base on the observations of Japanese spies who communicated through the Japanese embassy in Hawaii. They were sent to the Japanese General Staff for use. The messages were sent using the J-19 code (broken by the State Department), but the Pacific Fleet never saw them since these were diplomatic messages.

The Japanese NEVER intended to invade anywhere east of Guadalcanal. They knew that the U.S. could not support the Australians if they lacked bases in the Philippines or the New Guinea Archipelago. The purpose of the Pearl Harbor attack was always to get the U.S. to negotiate for peace at the point of the katana, and keep Admiral Kimmel's battleships and carriers away from the Japanese fleet in Southeast Asia.

Hitler, while he occupied France, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc., had no intentions of fighting on a western front when he had his hands full with the USSR. His actions in the Atlantic and protestations against U.S aid to Great Britain were done to warn the U.S. against an attack on western Europe. When Pearl Harbor was attacked he actually did not declare war on the U.S. immediately. He had treaty obligations with the Italians and Japanese, and was pledged to join forces if attacked by anyone. When the U.S. declared war on December 8th, the U.S. was actually rash in our declaration. Since neither Germany nor Japan was able to mutually defend the other, the U.S. could have concentrated more resources against Japan earlier.

The late Admiral Edwin T. Layton was probably the foremost expert on Japanese intelligence, and he wrote a number of books on the subject.

Churchill did want the U.S. in the war, but Americ... (show quote)

JFK and his dad were both pro German. There is too much written evidence on this to believe otherwise!

DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina

Architect1776 wrote:

It amazes me the comments on this joke. How utterly lacking in a sense of humor exists primarily among the haters of America ie libs.
Intelligent people see the humor. Do not worry that a zero or any plane of the period could make the flight.
My father was a Marine infantry officer in the Pacific and was involved in the combat operations. He lost many buddies etc. In the war.
He is still alive and thought it was funny.

Please explane where any humor exists in the attack by Japan on the US at Pearl Harbor.

pendennis

ken hubert wrote:

JFK and his dad were both pro German. There is too much written evidence on this to believe otherwise!

The purpose of including JFK was intended to show that a large number of people were against participation of any war in Europe, and it was not my intention to give any of the Kennedy's a pass on their blatant Antisemitism (Jack, Joe, Jr. and Sr). Future U.S. President Gerald Ford, and Charles Lindbergh both belonged to "America First", and at the time they were considered conservative. There was widespread opposition to a European war. Americans looked at Germany and the USSR as political opposites, where as their differences were in accomplishing socialistic aims.

FDR was a typical liberal who led from his heart, not thinking his support for Great Britain all the way through. He was quite naive in all aspects of the body politic.

Churchill was a political opportunist who switched sides from Tory to Labourite to Tory, as he saw fit for increasing his political power.

It was an age of amazing political naivete by the pols in Washington, D.C.

bobsisk Loc: Chandler, Arizona

As long as we've gotten this serious about the subject, please allow me to quote from Winston Churchill's volume 6 in his WWII series, page ix, written on September 30, 1953.

"I have called this volume Triumph and Tragedy because the overwhelming victory of the Grand Alliance has failed so far to bring general peace to our anxious world."

Then on the following page he posted his theme for the volume.

HOW THE GREAT DEMOCRIES
TRIUMPHED,
AND SO WERE ABLE TO RESUME
THE FOLLIES
WHICH HAD SO NEARLY
COST THEM THEIR
LIFE

Great insights from a truly great man.

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

pendennis wrote:

The purpose of including JFK was intended to show ... (show quote)

bobsisk Loc: Chandler, Arizona

Shucky darn, I misspelled DEMOCRACIES.
Apologies to all who read this and to Sir Winston Churchill (posthumously).

James Slick Loc: Pittsburgh,PA

bobsisk wrote:

As long as we've gotten this serious about the sub... (show quote)