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Is full frame necessary?
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Aug 3, 2017 21:16:33   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
LeoB wrote:
Can one get an image like this on a smaller sensor? For sure. But it is a darned nice camera.


Of course! I am guessing that it is the SONY RX1 original or the Mark2 version. Composition, time of the day, subject matter, all came from you.

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Aug 3, 2017 22:26:06   #
IBM
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
I don't understand your obsession with this downsizing as we seem to have agreed that there are different cameras that can achieve results satisfactory to many people. We could probably find photographers who went the route of 4/3 to full frame or other. Bottom line is you pay your money and take your choice. Shoot what you want for the reasons you want and everyone else can do likewise.

Best,
Todd Ferguson


Your right , when you down grade from full frame it just means your fed up with the weight and expense, I will be doing that fairly soon.
And I will be getting a Sony for my shirt pocket , or jacket pocket .

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Aug 4, 2017 00:01:54   #
radiojohn
 
An interesting question when you consider that, eventually, smaller sensors will improve even more and owners of full-frame lenses from their old 35mm gear will become a less relevant group.

It's a lot like asking if an f/1.4 lens is really needed in an age of ISO half-a-million. So much of our attitudes are still based on old concepts and experiencing this developing technology. We needed big apertures years ago because film was slow and finders were dim and it was hard to focus. How far along are we in digital computers with lenses? 15 years? Think about what cameras we had when photography itself was only 15 years old?

Out of curiosity, I bought an "open box" Lyro Illum for about $200. It's my first "computational" camera and there are more to come. Aside from the fact that an exported image is only 4MP, the Lytro folks did a terrible job of showing what else the camera can do! It only shoots at f/2, but multiple simultaneous shots at various focus points allow you to set "virtual" f/stops for varying depth of field without changing exposure.

My point is that a lot of our thinking is still influenced by film while cameras 10 years from now may bear little resemblence to what we have today. The Lytro will be useless when the software stops working on some new version of Windows, but that will be a few years.

All I have left in 35mm lens are a few oddball Russian ones, an East German 85mm Tessar and a "vintage" 1965 Sun Tele 75-200 Zoom with a pistol grip handle and trigger to stop down the lens! Some day I'll find a used full-frame DSLR when nobody cares about them any more.

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Aug 4, 2017 00:04:00   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
LeoB wrote:
OK, original poster here. Yes, I'm still following as there are some who continue to be informative. Let's see if I can get this thread back on track. I've attached an image to perhaps help describe what I'm thinking. I shot this recently with a camera I was loaned for a day. The camera is billed as a "compact" full frame. I will not say what camera it is, but I'm sure many will figure it out. It is a joy to use from the moment you hold it. Intuitive, minimal controls, full auto exposure available with very easy switch to A,S, or M. Swift, smooth, accurate auto-focus with easy override. DOF markings on it's fixed focal length lens. Mind you, I had just picked it up, given a two minute tutorial and sent on my way. This image was captured as a DNG, with very few tweaks in LR. It is uncropped. Can one get an image like this on a smaller sensor? For sure. But it is a darned nice camera.
OK, original poster here. Yes, I'm still following... (show quote)


Can you actually upload the picture so we can see a bit more detail? (Has to be less than 20megs or cut down in size.)

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Aug 4, 2017 00:57:30   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
LeoB wrote:
OK, original poster here. Yes, I'm still following as there are some who continue to be informative. Let's see if I can get this thread back on track. I've attached an image to perhaps help describe what I'm thinking. I shot this recently with a camera I was loaned for a day. The camera is billed as a "compact" full frame. I will not say what camera it is, but I'm sure many will figure it out. It is a joy to use from the moment you hold it. Intuitive, minimal controls, full auto exposure available with very easy switch to A,S, or M. Swift, smooth, accurate auto-focus with easy override. DOF markings on it's fixed focal length lens. Mind you, I had just picked it up, given a two minute tutorial and sent on my way. This image was captured as a DNG, with very few tweaks in LR. It is uncropped. Can one get an image like this on a smaller sensor? For sure. But it is a darned nice camera.
OK, original poster here. Yes, I'm still following... (show quote)

Captured as a DNG? A Leica SL or the Panasonic alternative? Nice if price is no object.

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Aug 4, 2017 08:48:03   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Thread has lost focus.

Bye.

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Aug 4, 2017 10:09:54   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
LeoB wrote:
I have a full-frame DSLR that I am happy with, a D600. I like the image quality in terms of resolution, low light ability and with what I am able to do in post-processing with the dynamic range this camera offers. I like to shoot landscapes, often with a wide and ultrawide zoom, in and around where I live. And I like to print them large, 12 x 18, sometimes as large as 20 x 30 inches. Walking around with a backpack and tripod for a couple of hours is fine, but like many others, I find it heavy when I travel or out all day. So I have been in the market for something smaller, but I don't want to give up too much of what my D600 gives me. Must I go with a full frame compact? Or can I go with a smaller sensor, like a 1" and still have good image quality in terms of resolution and dynamic range? Thanks
I have a full-frame DSLR that I am happy with, a D... (show quote)


Go to DxoMark and click on Cameras - any brand. At the top of the list there are three little icons for displaying the results. Click on the icon on the right which has a little graph icon. The graph will appear with a bunch of little dots displayed by score and age. Click on the tab for Landscape since that is your main interest and find your D600 - look for the year it came out or its DXO score. Scan around the dots until you find a mirrorless or crop sensor with a similiar or better score. Generally, a FF will have better DR, ISO and resolution than a smaller sensor, but year of issue is a factor. Some new crop sensor cameras like the Sony A6500 have DR, ISO and resolution as good or better than an older FF camera.
Obviously, DXOmark should not be the deciding factor, but this is a good way to narrow the field for further investigation.

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Aug 4, 2017 20:56:42   #
LeoB Loc: Miami, FL
 
tdekany wrote:
Of course! I am guessing that it is the SONY RX1 original or the Mark2 version. Composition, time of the day, subject matter, all came from you.


It was a Leica Q. Thank you for your kind comments.

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Aug 4, 2017 22:48:45   #
n3eg Loc: West coast USA
 
LeoB wrote:
Must I go with a full frame compact? Or can I go with a smaller sensor, like a 1" and still have good image quality in terms of resolution and dynamic range? Thanks

You didn't mention micro four thirds, which has a selection of cameras from small rangefinder style to mini-DSLR size and features ranging from basic to stuff that Nikon and Canon can't match. How about hi-res mode, which gives you 80Mp resolution from a 20Mp sensor by moving the sensor around?

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Aug 4, 2017 23:06:10   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
n3eg wrote:
You didn't mention micro four thirds, which has a selection of cameras from small rangefinder style to mini-DSLR size and features ranging from basic to stuff that Nikon and Canon can't match. How about hi-res mode, which gives you 80Mp resolution from a 20Mp sensor by moving the sensor around?


I think that the overall consensus in this thread has been that Micro 4/3 is viable, but I want to say one thing about the feature you mention. I have a friend with a Micro 4/3 (Olympus) with this feature, and he's shared some of his hi-res pictures with me. There is something "artificial" in the way they look compared with my 36 megapixel Nikon D810 pictures. I don't know if he's screwing up in post processing, but at the same time, I think it's much more convenient to just point a high resolution camera at something and press the shutter. I don't think that OP is looking for high resolution pictures or we'd be having a discussion about high resolution cameras, rather than ones with small sensors. One thing that does interest me is in-camera focus stacking, which my friend's camera can also do. It's damn hard to get enough depth of field in the macro range. The closer you get, the harder it gets.

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Aug 6, 2017 19:38:46   #
zdncer Loc: Vancouver, WA
 
I use the Sony A6000 and the Sony 18-200 lens and 10-18 Sony Lens. I am printing on paper and metal from 4X6 to 24 X 36 without issue. If the image is clean it will print quite large. If there is noise in your image it will show. The only issues I have with this crop sensor is the low light noise. It is not always present but enough to make me look at the others. But I have yet to pull the trigger as I am quite happy selling my work with the current set up. Although if I did want to spend some more I think I would go for a G lens or a longer lens. When I am shooting bands or events in low light I do wish I had a full frame Sony.

I originally went with Sony because I had rented and borrowed Cannon and Nikon and after carrying them I knew I wouldn't be able to carry them to the extent that I wanted to. I take my A6000 EVERYWHERE with me. EVERYWHERE. And I travel a good deal. I have considered the A6500 because of the 5axis image stabilization because I shake a bit and I do not always want to carry my tripod when traveling or when out hiking for hours. But I have not pulled the trigger on that either.

I do agree that Cannon and Nikon do have great lens choices but Sony is trying to catch up and the other two are not keeping up with the advancements of Sony or the lower cost of Sony. Also note that many camera's Sensor's are made by Sony. I have heard that Although I have not confirmed it. Now that being said the image is mainly from the photographer not his/her equipment.

Best of luck to you, I am sure once you figure it out you will be completely happy with it.

Jamie K

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Aug 6, 2017 19:55:57   #
JP Pixburgh Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
LeoB wrote:
I have a full-frame DSLR that I am happy with, a D600. I like the image quality in terms of resolution, low light ability and with what I am able to do in post-processing with the dynamic range this camera offers. I like to shoot landscapes, often with a wide and ultrawide zoom, in and around where I live. And I like to print them large, 12 x 18, sometimes as large as 20 x 30 inches. Walking around with a backpack and tripod for a couple of hours is fine, but like many others, I find it heavy when I travel or out all day. So I have been in the market for something smaller, but I don't want to give up too much of what my D600 gives me. Must I go with a full frame compact? Or can I go with a smaller sensor, like a 1" and still have good image quality in terms of resolution and dynamic range? Thanks
I have a full-frame DSLR that I am happy with, a D... (show quote)


I think the big question is what are you going to do with the backpack and tripod? If you're going to keep it, no sense in shedding a pound or less. You're happy already. Stick with your toys.

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Aug 9, 2017 08:30:21   #
Dun1 Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
I routinely shoot with a Canon 7D, a Canon 1DS Mark ii I can certainly tell the difference between the 7D and 1DS Mark ii images. These two cameras are fairly close in the megapixel category, with the 7D @ 18 megapixels, and 1DS Mark ii @ 16
I also went lighter and a few years ago and started using a Sony A6000, I can certainly notice the differences weight wise when I shoot with the 7D the A6000 bests both the 7D and the 1DS Mark ii with 24 megapixels.
I usually select the combinations based on the event I am shooting

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Sep 8, 2017 14:38:52   #
mrpentaxk5ii
 
All mega pixels are not created equal, if you have a full frame sensor, a APSC, 4/3, 1inch.....and ahammmmmmmmmmm a cellphone as the sensor gets smaler so do the pixels and it's ability to process light.

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Sep 8, 2017 14:49:49   #
BebuLamar
 
Is full frame necessary is like someone many years ago asked "Is 8x10 necessary?"

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