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Jun 14, 2012 09:20:40   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
jekbeck60 wrote:
Festina Lente wrote:
I also agree that a C&C area would be useful. Currently both the Gallery and Photo Analysis areas often overlap with C&C requests and replies. It can be confusing and futile at times.

Classifying photographers is another matter rift with problems. I know many photogs who are world class talent who do not earn a living or get paid for their efforts and far far too many who do get paid for their work, despite limited skills and mediocre photographs. It is a muddy division at best and no indication of depth of knowledge or ability.

Perhaps, if it really matters, beginner, intermediate and advanced classifications might yield less posturing divisions and be more meaningful to those who want to know?
I also agree that a C&C area would be useful. ... (show quote)


I would definately welcome a C & C area and agree with Festina Lente.
quote=Festina Lente I also agree that a C&C a... (show quote)


Photo Analysis should have the heading/title changed to "Photo Analysis/C&C"
However many who ask for C&C are primarily interested in showing what they have done and are asking for others to give more comments than the harsh critiques that are sometimes see in Photo Analysis.

Also, some of the ones giving the comments and critique need to get a grip on their attitudes!! Giving critique NEEDS TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE!!! I hate seeing comments such as "Nothing of interest" or "What's the subject?" or other similar comments instead of giving CONSTRUCTIVE comments on their thoughts for making it a better photo. I personally have gotten some fairly sour attittudes towards some of those who comment based on their LACK OF TEACHING SKILLS and their BIG EGOS!!! As a result when I select to look at a post, if I see that it was posted by one of them I immediately back out and ignore it. Others I look and have to laugh at how ordinary or poor their photos are in comparison to what they say about others.

To ALL who offer comments and criticism, you don't have to put a sugar coating on everything, but OMG you don't have to be so harsh in trying to SHOOT the photographer!!! At least have the decency to give your opinion on making it better!! Every negative comment needs a positive comment on how to improve it!

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Jun 14, 2012 09:24:43   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
Wanda Krack wrote:
I agree with MWAC about having a C&C area and also a gallery for show and tell. I also agree with Festina Lente about the classifications. Both would be worthwhile for me.


It is a matter of terminology and how people use the categories that are there.

Photo Analysis was designed for C&C but some were told that they had to be more specific about what they wanted to know about a pic before putting it in there. This category should be for ANY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.

Photo Gallery is PRIMARILY a Show & Tell, but C&C is also appropriate there, BUT USE TACT!!!! Don't be too cruel or the OP will quit posting.

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Jun 14, 2012 09:29:10   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
dpullum wrote:
MWAC wrote:
I am totally infavour of a C&C area (I've mentioned this more than once). I personally think the Photo Analysis needs to be changed to straight C&C and turn the gallery into a show and tell.


As usual you and I reasonably agree except if I had hair I would not pull it out as you do.

There was a posting of photos asking for help, he was told, nice, great etc. I cropped, color adjusted and then posted one of his photos and explained the judgment criteria of our CClub and how the critiques of my 12-15 pt photos turned around and I won 3rd place in the amateur year long competition. This year I have been bumped to pro.

The Poster proceeded to follow the suggested basic guide lines and wala, his good photos were reposted by him and became great well composed etc photos. I received a PM from him thanking me for the help. I was richly rewarded by that "thank you" and the change I saw in one day of his being guided. It was a moment of simple enlightenment for him and he stepped over a threshold. That is what the UHH family is all about.

Point being, that the basic rules of composition etc are not obvious to beginners or even old documentarians like me. The idea of guidance at various levels, always gentle and positive, is an excellent one. It is rare that I look at the Show-&-Tell photos, but if critiques were asked for I would look and contribute.
quote=MWAC I am totally infavour of a C&C are... (show quote)


Most of YOUR comments that I have seen are VERY TACTFULLY and thoughtfully done. Your attitude for "always gentle and positive" is very different from the harsh, "SHOOT 'EM DOWN" attitude of some of the other commenters!!

THANK YOU for being a constructive TEACHER instead of a cruel basher!!

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Jun 14, 2012 09:33:31   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
bhfranklin wrote:
Totally agree with the new C&C concept BUT I already see confusion and contention over the user classifications. Let's not waste more time arguing over this subjective area, but let the users call themselves whatever they want such as basic, amateur, intermediate, etc. It doesn't really matter.

Lets get Admin to start it!


I totally agree on the USER classifications because there are some who are Pro PORTRAIT photographers that shoot mediocre or worse landscape, or flowers, etc, and there are Pro Wildlife photogs who couldn't take a decent portrait if they tried for month!!! I am sure that MOST of the better photographers on UHH have areas of expertise where they would be considered PRO or close to it, and yet are very inadequate at other areas. It is difficult to be at the top of all categories of photography.

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Jun 14, 2012 09:38:25   #
Wahawk Loc: NE IA
 
Sunfish 33 wrote:
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted some images yesterday "Sunrise @ 174mm and 500mm. C&C please" in the photo gallery. I got some feedback and it was helpful but might would have got more if listed in a C&C category.
I'm somewhere between amature and novice. I'm really trying to learn as much as possible and find the advice on UHH very helpful. I will also post some images in the future just for fun and hopefully some of you will find entertaining or humorous (C&C would be welcome but not so important in that case).
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted so... (show quote)


I have seen the same with others that have posted. I guess if you want the harsher C&C and possibly more "informed" from the better photogs here, post under Photo Analysis, maybe under both categories so that you get comments by the "general" viewers as well as by those who love to give the more in-depth comments and critiques.

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Jun 14, 2012 09:41:22   #
budrakey
 
I have to agree with Festina Lente about the classifications. What does have getting paid for it have to do with the quality of the photo? Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels make the most sense to me and perhaps for the real egotists :-), Master level.

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Jun 14, 2012 09:41:39   #
Country's Mama Loc: Michigan
 
I think someone just has to agree to monitor it and the administrator will add it.
I think that is how some of the other sections got started. Worth a PM to the administrator.

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Jun 14, 2012 09:52:20   #
oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey
 
Wahawk wrote:
Sunfish 33 wrote:
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted some images yesterday "Sunrise @ 174mm and 500mm. C&C please" in the photo gallery. I got some feedback and it was helpful but might would have got more if listed in a C&C category.
I'm somewhere between amature and novice. I'm really trying to learn as much as possible and find the advice on UHH very helpful. I will also post some images in the future just for fun and hopefully some of you will find entertaining or humorous (C&C would be welcome but not so important in that case).
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted so... (show quote)


I have seen the same with others that have posted. I guess if you want the harsher C&C and possibly more "informed" from the better photogs here, post under Photo Analysis, maybe under both categories so that you get comments by the "general" viewers as well as by those who love to give the more in-depth comments and critiques.
quote=Sunfish 33 I love the idea of a C&C sec... (show quote)


I made the mistake of posing a photo for C&C in the "photo analysis" section once. The admin moved my photo because my question was not specific enough. As far as I am concerned this section is about useless as it is and does need to be changed.

Jim D

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Jun 14, 2012 09:54:12   #
wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska
 
Amature - From the Randomhouse Unabridged Dictionary "#1 - A person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financlal benefit or profesional reasons." Some of the best photographers are amatures. It just bugs me that a "Pro" who takes pictures at a stand in a big box store is thought better than an amature that does macro work doing insecst and is a master of their craft. It may be just me but I have it when people think that someone is a "pro" they know more than many amatures. - I think the classifaications should be beginner, intermidiate, and advanced. - Dave

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Jun 14, 2012 10:03:11   #
wrr Loc: SEK
 
No labels, we don't need labels, labels are almost always counterproductive. One of those things that looks good on paper but in practice, bad, bad idea.

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Jun 14, 2012 10:08:43   #
toolmaker Loc: Albert Lea, MN. USA
 
I'll add my vote for this idea . We all have more to learn , and this is a way to do it.As stated, there are folks with expertise in different phases of this craft. What works for portraits does not automatically work for nature or macro photography.

Dave

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Jun 14, 2012 10:12:19   #
connievloutely Loc: Quaker State (PA)
 
I am in favor of C & C.

I have been taking pictures and have had a wet lab for 62 years. I am still learning.

I have the techie part figured out, but my composition and understanding of light is poor.

A PRO is one who gets paid for what he does and gets paid according to the satisfaction of his clients.

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Jun 14, 2012 10:12:22   #
tk Loc: Iowa
 
Okay, rank amateur here. I do not give intense critique on shots because I know I'm not capable of giving the true details of what is needed when a shot needs work.

And, I'm asking this for the truth, am I helping create the problem when I tell someone I like their shot? I do like the shot, I wouldn't lie but sometimes I see a shot placed out there with no comments for quite a while and I feel like someone should say something. They may not ask for C&C so I say something generic but truthful, either nice shot, I like it, or you must have had a great time getting this shot. Maybe this kind of response is helping create the problem.

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Jun 14, 2012 10:13:55   #
MWAC Loc: Somewhere East Of Crazy
 
oldtool2 wrote:
Wahawk wrote:
Sunfish 33 wrote:
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted some images yesterday "Sunrise @ 174mm and 500mm. C&C please" in the photo gallery. I got some feedback and it was helpful but might would have got more if listed in a C&C category.
I'm somewhere between amature and novice. I'm really trying to learn as much as possible and find the advice on UHH very helpful. I will also post some images in the future just for fun and hopefully some of you will find entertaining or humorous (C&C would be welcome but not so important in that case).
I love the idea of a C&C section. I posted so... (show quote)


I have seen the same with others that have posted. I guess if you want the harsher C&C and possibly more "informed" from the better photogs here, post under Photo Analysis, maybe under both categories so that you get comments by the "general" viewers as well as by those who love to give the more in-depth comments and critiques.
quote=Sunfish 33 I love the idea of a C&C sec... (show quote)


I made the mistake of posing a photo for C&C in the "photo analysis" section once. The admin moved my photo because my question was not specific enough. As far as I am concerned this section is about useless as it is and does need to be changed.

Jim D
quote=Wahawk quote=Sunfish 33 I love the idea of... (show quote)



Jim same thing happened to me, posted an image in the Analysis form and Admin moved it because I did not ask a direct question regarding the image just asked for C&C. I agree that forum is as useful as the white dot on the top of a chicken turd.

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Jun 14, 2012 10:14:17   #
wrr Loc: SEK
 
No labels, we don't need labels, labels are almost always counterproductive. One of those things that looks good on paper but in practice, bad, bad idea.

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