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Trump's First Military Raid Was a Massacre of Civilians, Including an 8-Year-Old Girl
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Feb 1, 2017 01:54:39   #
Texcaster Loc: Queensland
 
soba1 wrote:
Like this was the first military adventure where there was a civilian casualty.
It's sad but come on, let's not forget Benghazi jus sayin


Let's not forget Reagan's Benghazi either. Three security lapses in Lebanon, over 300 Americans dead!

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/ronald-reagans-benghazi

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Feb 1, 2017 01:59:37   #
dirtpusher Loc: tulsa oklahoma
 
Looks like you loosing ground soba. Winger are disaster makers

The Doomsday Clock just advanced, 'thanks to Trump': It's now just 2½ ...

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Feb 1, 2017 02:07:04   #
soba1 Loc: Somewhere In So Ca
 
dirtpusher wrote:
Lying facts from the right got us to this


You're right about that. Should have left Saddam alone.
Bush had to have him.

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Feb 1, 2017 02:08:21   #
soba1 Loc: Somewhere In So Ca
 
Texcaster wrote:
Let's not forget Reagan's Benghazi either. Three security lapses in Lebanon, over 300 Americans dead!

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/ronald-reagans-benghazi


Don't expect me to defend it. There has always been military screw ups is my point.

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Feb 1, 2017 06:14:26   #
DaveO Loc: Northeast CT
 
soba1 wrote:
Face it u have no counter argument. I clearly stated my position, upurposely ignored.
You are a master at evading when you cannot defend your position to someone's counter argument.
So again u are so eager to show President Trumps blunder.
All I asked u to do was prove there were no civilian casualties no friendly fire casualties during any military action
under Obama.


He is no more than a pant load and master baiter. A clown who fancies himself an intellectual,but in reality trolls just for the sake of being argumentative.

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Feb 1, 2017 12:01:35   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
Keenan wrote:
The victim was the third member of her Yemeni-American family to be killed by the U.S.

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/nawar_al_awlaki.jpg

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/nawar-anwar-al-awlaki-killed-us-trump-raid-yemen-civilians

The first military raid carried out under the administration of President Donald Trump was a disaster, U.S. officials acknowledge. According to a Yemeni politician, it was a massacre of women and children.

On Sunday, January 29, Secret Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) forces carried out a raid in southern Yemen — Trump's first clandestine operation. An unnamed senior military official told NBC News, "Almost everything went wrong." Officials acknowledged that several civilians were killed, along with members of al-Qaeda.

Among the victims was an 8-year-old girl named Nawar al-Awlaki, the daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen and extremist propagandist with links to al-Qaeda who was assassinated in a drone strike in Yemen in 2011. President Obama personally authorized the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, without trial. Two weeks after his death, another U.S. drone strike killed Anwar's son, 16-year-old U.S. citizen Abdulrahman al-Awlaki. Unlike his father, Abdulrahman did not have any links to al-Qaeda.

Nawar, the latest civilian victim of U.S. violence in the Middle East, was Abdulrahman's sister. She is at least the third member of the al-Awlaki family to be killed by the U.S.


Nawar was not the only innocent victim of President Trump's first raid (which, despite earlier media reports to the contrary, was approved by Trump, not Obama). According to her grandfather, Nasser al-Awlaki, a politician who previously served as Yemen's agriculture minister, U.S. SEALs killed even more civilians. Nasser spoke with Yemeni sources to get to the bottom of what happened during the raid. He told NBC News that Nawar was sitting in a house with her mother when she was suddenly shot in the neck. She died after suffering for two hours.

"Other children in the same house were killed," Nasser said.

After the raid on this house, the SEALs "entered another house and killed everybody in it, including all the women," Nasser continued. Then, "They burned the house."

The U.S. government disputes this account. While conceding that some civilians were killed, U.S. officials claimed some of the women were actually militants who fired at the SEALs.

The exact circumstances around the killing vary according to the source, as does the death toll. The Pentagon says 14 combatants were killed, along with "numerous" civilians. Yemeni officials estimate as many as 59 militants and civilians were killed, Nasser al-Awlaki said.

There is a precedent for U.S. officials lying about secretive raids carried out by Special Operations forces. Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Seymour Hersh wrote an expose claiming the Obama administration lied about the circumstances surrounding the killing of al-Qaeda kingpin Osama bin Laden by SEALs (although multiple accounts of the incident contradicted each other in the first place).

Moreover, investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill has probed how U.S. forces tried to cover up a raid in Afghanistan in which they killed several women and children. Afghan investigators and witnesses said, after the 2010 attack, that U.S. forces dug the bullets out of the body of at least one pregnant Afghan woman they had shot.

Anwar al-Awlaki was an influential extremist Islamist with connections to al-Qaeda, for which he was accused of recruiting. Anwar reportedly consulted with and influenced the militants involved in several terror attacks, including three of the 9/11 hijackers; the Fort Hood shooter, Nidal Hasan; and the so-called underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. His propaganda was also credited with radicalizing the Tsarnaev brothers, who carried out the Boston Marathon bombing.

It is unclear whether the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki's daughter was intentional or accidental. President Trump campaigned on a pledge to go after not only extremist Islamist militants but also members of their families.

The intentional killing of civilian family members of combatants is a war crime under international law.

Reporting on the raid has been sloppy. It took two days for most major media outlets to acknowledge that U.S. forces had killed the 8-year-old girl, although Arabic media sources reported the incident hours after it took place. American reporters for the most part uncritically echoed what anonymous U.S. government officials had told them.

Many of the stories immediately published after the raid on January 29 reflected positively on an operation that allegedly led to the deaths al-Qaeda leaders. Headlines emphasized that one U.S. commando lost his life but made no mention of the civilian casualties.

Buried in a little-noticed earlier report by Reuters, Nasser spoke of Nawar's death. He lamented, "Why kill children? This is the new [U.S.] administration — it's very sad, a big crime."

Al-Qaeda is already using the latest attack in Yemen for propaganda purposes. In a statement quoted by NBC News, operatives in the Arabian Peninsula condemned the SEALs for shooting women and children "in cold blood," and accused them of having "no human values." The extremist group has been expanding rapidly in Yemen, where the U.S. has carried out a covert drone war since 2002.

JSOC, which carried out the disastrous raid, is notorious for overseeing, along with the CIA, the covert drone assassination program. In Yemen, hundreds of people have been killed by U.S. drones, including civilians at weddings and funerals. A United Nations report found that from mid-2014 to mid-2015, more civilians were killed in U.S. drone strikes than al-Qaeda militants.
i The victim was the third member of her Yemeni-A... (show quote)


Navy SEALS would not do this.

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Feb 1, 2017 12:14:50   #
green Loc: 22.1749611,-159.646704,20
 
I don't think Trump personally led the men... or even knew about it.

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Feb 1, 2017 13:23:43   #
dirtpusher Loc: tulsa oklahoma
 
green wrote:
I don't think Trump personally led the men... or even knew about it.


They were given 30 days to devise thier plan. Looks like got trigger happy

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Feb 1, 2017 13:57:05   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
DaveO wrote:
He is no more than a pant load and master baiter. A clown who fancies himself an intellectual,but in reality trolls just for the sake of being argumentative.


Sure, little Davey. Always got to pile on with stupid ass positions, no matter how illogical the stance you have to support to attack me, don't you? Because of course Benghazi is a logical fair comparison, isn't it? You have become transparently desperate and boring with your childish routine. Idiot.

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Feb 1, 2017 17:41:16   #
steve40 Loc: Asheville/Canton, NC, USA
 
When bomb's fall, they are blind to who they kill. And when the enemy stands behind their wives and children, who is really guilty of killing them.

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Feb 1, 2017 17:43:15   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
steve40 wrote:
When bomb's fall, they are blind to who they kill. And when the enemy stands behind their wives and children, who is really guilty of killing them.


Wait, what? It kind of sounds like you are making a very serious claim here. You said, "And when the enemy stands behind their wives and children, who is really guilty of killing them." What exactly are you talking about? Are you claiming that is what happened in this case? if so, put up or shut up.

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Feb 1, 2017 17:48:07   #
steve40 Loc: Asheville/Canton, NC, USA
 
Probably so, and I do not have to do either. Are you Islamic by chance, that is the kind of attitude they have about it.

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Feb 1, 2017 17:51:30   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
steve40 wrote:
Probably so, and I do not have to do either. Are you Islamic by chance, that is the kind of attitude they have about it.


Sorry, bud. "Probably so" means that you think you can just fabricate reality, and then demand that we accept your fantasy as the truth.

You're really into this Alternative Facts thing, aren't you? You're going to have a hard time relating to most of the human race from here on out if that is the alternative reality bubble you will be confining yourself in.

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Feb 1, 2017 19:18:53   #
btbg
 
Keenan wrote:
I don't see anywhere where it says it was "months in the planning", so you appear to have made that part up.

The intentional killing of civilian family members of combatants is a war crime under international law. Whoever is president and authorized the operation at the time bears responsibility. Instead of trying to shift blame, how about acknowledging that this should not be acceptable regardless of who is president?"


I don't know where you got your information, but both NBC and CNN reported that the raid was months in the planning. The only thing that Trump had to do with it was he signed off on it. It was planned during the Obama administration.

At least at face value I would agree that the killing of an eight year old is a tragedy. The one thing that could change that would be if she was armed and pointing the weapon at a seal. Right now we have limited information about the raid and what went wrong.

It absolutely appears to be a disaster and a tragedy, but it wasn't Trump's doing. I repeat if you bother to take the time to check it was planned months earlier.

One of the problems we have in military engagements is that the groups we are fighting deliberately put military targets in areas that have civilians. At times it is very difficult to tell who is an enemy combatant and who isn't. The initial reports indicate that at least some of the women killed were shooting at the seals, and there is no question that the building that the eight year old was in had people inside that were shooting at the seals.

When the details come out it may turn out that the eight year old was in the same room as enemy combatants and her death was unavoidable, or it may turn out that someone from the seal team violated the rules of engagement and should be prosecuted. It may take years before we know the entire truth, but blaming Trump is ridiculous. He was neither there nor planned the attack.

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Feb 1, 2017 19:27:02   #
Keenan Loc: Central Coast California
 
btbg wrote:
I don't know where you got your information, but both NBC and CNN reported that the raid was months in the planning. The only thing that Trump had to do with it was he signed off on it. It was planned during the Obama administration.

At least at face value I would agree that the killing of an eight year old is a tragedy. The one thing that could change that would be if she was armed and pointing the weapon at a seal. Right now we have limited information about the raid and what went wrong.

It absolutely appears to be a disaster and a tragedy, but it wasn't Trump's doing. I repeat if you bother to take the time to check it was planned months earlier.

One of the problems we have in military engagements is that the groups we are fighting deliberately put military targets in areas that have civilians. At times it is very difficult to tell who is an enemy combatant and who isn't. The initial reports indicate that at least some of the women killed were shooting at the seals, and there is no question that the building that the eight year old was in had people inside that were shooting at the seals.

When the details come out it may turn out that the eight year old was in the same room as enemy combatants and her death was unavoidable, or it may turn out that someone from the seal team violated the rules of engagement and should be prosecuted. It may take years before we know the entire truth, but blaming Trump is ridiculous. He was neither there nor planned the attack.
I don't know where you got your information, but b... (show quote)


Please quote your sources that say that this raid was "months in the planning". If you make a claim, you should evidence your claim.

I didn't say Trump was solely to blame. I'm saying he bears some responsibility, just as Obama did when her 16 year old brother was killed last year. You seem to be assuming that I didn't hold Obama to the same standard. If that's what you think, then you are wrong. I have posted many threads critical of the way the Obama Administration has carried out their bloody campaign against ISIS, and against rebels in Yemen, which have resulted in more new recruits to ISIS and other enemies of the US than we have killed. Aside from the immorality of how this war is conducted, it is counterproductive. Trump is merely continuing this bloody and likely illegal, criminal campaign that involves war crimes, and there are indications that he has even fewer moral constraints and would have no problem in increasing the slaughter of innocents, making torture official policy again, and getting into a major bloody battle of the US against Islam. Some of his advisors and absolutely frightening and resemble Jack D Ripper from D. Strangelove.

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