Gene- I upgraded PS every other upgrade from V3 which came on floppies, until CS5. Direct from Adobe I never paid more than $179. So unless you were doing more than 2 installs of just PhotoShop, you got ripped off. I could go along with subscriptions if they said when you stop paying you get no more upgrades, but still have the functionality you had when you stopped.
As for you needing all the new features, that is mostly just the desire to have the latest. To say you need them is to say you couldn't work anymore if they didn't come out with a new feature.
And, if you haven't used it lately I can understand why you feel there is a huge difference between Adobe and Corel. They have both added so much that they have more features than most people will ever need, even if they are three upgrades behind.
To each their own. But there are valid reasons for choosing owning versus renting and vice versa. True for houses, cars, and software. I know people who are willing to trade a 1 year old car because they now have CarPlay. Yeah, they too need the new feature. :)
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Bill_de wrote:
... I'd say that is a substantial saving over subscriptions. Maybe V6 doesn't support the latest camera, but if you don't own the latest camera ...
I seem to remember paying $150.00 about every 18 months for the newest version (upgrade) of Photoshop. Now, it is $10 a month for instant upgrades. Yes, there is possibly a savings there but hardly "substantial." (FWIW, I, personally, subscribe to the complete CC package.)
Gene51
Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
Gene51 wrote:
I'll let you know after I download ON1 Beta on Wednesday.
So far the beta is pretty buggy, but the promised finalized version is just a few weeks away. It's interface is slick - very easy to move between raw and bitmapped images, unlike LR which requires the image be in effect exported from LR to Photoshop or whatever application you are using. Plugins work with LR and PS as they always have. Commands in raw are a bit slow, but the image quality so far looks pretty good.
I like the various sharpening options, noise reduction, and the range of the sliders on the Local Adjustment option - which is considerably better than LR's. It is also great to be able to "layer" the local adjustments, and apply a precision mask, just like you would in Photoshop or On1 Effects, to the raw file. You can copy the mask from one adjustment setting to another as well. Blend modes and selective application (highlights, shadows and skin) is very useful. It would be great if multiple masks could be named and saved for future use. But just having this type of masking in the Develop module is really great. Being able to save the changes in a .on1 sidecar is great, making changes totally and automatically non-destructive.
Being able to apply very accurately defined and precise masks to local adjustments means I will rarely try to do that in LR, where it is "fuzzy" at best.
So far, so good, can't wait until the other promised features are available -
I'm still exploring, but I can see some things that I really like, some things that are just not possible in LR, and some things that LR is just faster and better at.
Like any craftsman's tool kit - having lots of tools, some of which may have some redundancy, makes it really easy to apply the right tool for the job. Having only a hammer available makes everything look like a nail. in this case more is definitely better, and I don't see myself not using LR in the future, but I do see myself using more of On1, especially in the early phases of importing and making the preliminary adjustments to raw files. Nothing will beat LR when it comes to making simple batch adjustments, other than Capture One or DXO - at least at the moment.
Gene51
Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
Bill_de wrote:
Gene- I upgraded PS every other upgrade from V3 which came on floppies, until CS5. Direct from Adobe I never paid more than $179. So unless you were doing more than 2 installs of just PhotoShop, you got ripped off. I could go along with subscriptions if they said when you stop paying you get no more upgrades, but still have the functionality you had when you stopped.
As for you needing all the new features, that is mostly just the desire to have the latest. To say you need them is to say you couldn't work anymore if they didn't come out with a new feature.
And, if you haven't used it lately I can understand why you feel there is a huge difference between Adobe and Corel. They have both added so much that they have more features than most people will ever need, even if they are three upgrades behind.
To each their own. But there are valid reasons for choosing owning versus renting and vice versa. True for houses, cars, and software. I know people who are willing to trade a 1 year old car because they now have CarPlay. Yeah, they too need the new feature. :)
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Gene- I upgraded PS every other upgrade from V3 wh... (
show quote)
Need and want and happy that I have are all relative. Most of the new features in each subsequent version of PS made me very happy - I could work better, faster, and my images were made with less effort, or I did things with and to them that were not possible in previous versions. Did I need this? Debatable. But I am really happy I got the upgrades.
And now I am REALLY happy that the cost is now less than a fifth of what it used to be when you consider LR and PS. I think the best way to stop bickering is to stop trying to convince me that there is a flaw in my decision process. There isn't. It works for me. And what you do works for you - as long as you are happy.
Gene51
Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
RonBoyd wrote:
I seem to remember paying $150.00 about every 18 months for the newest version (upgrade) of Photoshop. Now, it is $10 a month for instant upgrades. Yes, there is possibly a savings there but hardly "substantial." (FWIW, I, personally, subscribe to the complete CC package.)
Actually I misrepresented what I had paid to upgrade from CS5 Ext To CS6 - for some reason the price of $500 stuck in my head. Took a quick look in my accounting program and saw that I only paid $400 back in 2012, just about two years after upgrading to CS5. Pretty substantial to me. You may not have had the extended version, which only cost $200 to upgrade from Adobe, and a little cheaper if you waited and bought it from a retailer.
Gene51 wrote:
So far the beta is pretty buggy, but the promised finalized version is just a few weeks away. It's interface is slick - very easy to move between raw and bitmapped images, unlike LR which requires the image be in effect exported from LR to Photoshop or whatever application you are using. Plugins work with LR and PS as they always have. Commands in raw are a bit slow, but the image quality so far looks pretty good.
I like the various sharpening options, noise reduction, and the range of the sliders on the Local Adjustment option - which is considerably better than LR's. It is also great to be able to "layer" the local adjustments, and apply a precision mask, just like you would in Photoshop or On1 Effects, to the raw file. You can copy the mask from one adjustment setting to another as well. Blend modes and selective application (highlights, shadows and skin) is very useful. It would be great if multiple masks could be named and saved for future use. But just having this type of masking in the Develop module is really great. Being able to save the changes in a .on1 sidecar is great, making changes totally and automatically non-destructive.
Being able to apply very accurately defined and precise masks to local adjustments means I will rarely try to do that in LR, where it is "fuzzy" at best.
So far, so good, can't wait until the other promised features are available -
I'm still exploring, but I can see some things that I really like, some things that are just not possible in LR, and some things that LR is just faster and better at.
Like any craftsman's tool kit - having lots of tools, some of which may have some redundancy, makes it really easy to apply the right tool for the job. Having only a hammer available makes everything look like a nail. in this case more is definitely better, and I don't see myself not using LR in the future, but I do see myself using more of On1, especially in the early phases of importing and making the preliminary adjustments to raw files. Nothing will beat LR when it comes to making simple batch adjustments, other than Capture One or DXO - at least at the moment.
So far the beta is pretty buggy, but the promised ... (
show quote)
Nice rundown of the Beta. Look forward to your report (and any tips) when the full version comes out.
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DebAnn wrote:
This is for those of you who have used the new ON1 RAW and also have used Lightroom. Have you decided which one does a better job?
Thanks,
DebAnn
I have been playing with the new ON1 RAW, and I haven't decided how well I like it. Seems to be mostly stable, but I have found two things that if I do them, it crashes. Reports are automatically sent back on crashes.
I am very comfortable using LR/PS along with various plugins, so I have that bias to consider. I will need to watch some video tutorials to make sure I understand how things work.
The live presentations are lengthy and somewhat boring. I didn't make it through the first one. To much talk and not enough "show me". I will wait for more focused tutorials.
Gene51
Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
Bill_de wrote:
Nice rundown of the Beta. Look forward to your report (and any tips) when the full version comes out.
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Me too!
All kidding aside, I used many applications over the years, starting with Paint Shop Pro out of protest to Adobe's rapacious charges for their software. But I started using PS mostly in 1998 for creative stuff and pixel-level editing. I used several raw converters, including RawShooter, Lightroom, Capture One, DXO Optics Pro, Raw Therapee. I have been using LR seriously since 2011, along with Photoshop. I also have used Nik, Topaz, and ON1 - On1 since v6 I think.
After a while despite their differences, once you've seen one you've seen them all. But it's all about how they are different.
On1 strikes me as really different because of they way they have seamlessly merged raw conversion and pixel-level editing with similar tools to work wtih each. Two things of interest - how ON1's software develops in the coming months - and how Adobe responds. This is the first genuine threat I have seen to Adobe's market dominance over the still photography editor software market.
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