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I am sick about the direction of America.
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Apr 24, 2012 07:19:33   #
rpavich Loc: West Virginia
 
ward5311 wrote:
ENOUGH ALREADY...I knew when I saw the title of this topic it was gonna be a waste of 0's and 1's. Now that some have raised their own blood pressure..it's time to just let it go...has anyone changed anyone's mind? NO Have adults resorted to name calling...YES...

What I choose to believe or not believe is my choice and is very personal. What someone else believes is personal to them and the choices they make..If one wants to mingle with a group of like minds, that's their decision. To me it is personal. It is private. Yes I have my belief but I won't share it here and I won't argue just to try and show my command of the English language. Just LET IT GO...Geez!
b ENOUGH ALREADY /b ...I knew when I saw the titl... (show quote)


But aren't you trying to change the mind of those on this thread who aren't "letting it go"?

If you REALLY thought it was personal and everyone should "let it go" and not "try and change each other's mind" then you wouldn't have posted anything...you'd have just "let it go".

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Apr 24, 2012 07:21:30   #
rayford2 Loc: New Bethlehem, PA
 
ngc1514 wrote:
Scubie wrote:
Ok, here you go again!!!!!! yeah it's you.....I am curious, did we evolve or were we created. fess up. Do you believe there is no God or intelligent being. I have never been able to get a straight answer for either an agnostic or athiest. They believe and condemn, but have no basis for their beliefs. I am not saying you are one. Explain your thinking, inquiring minds need to know. And yes, churches are full of the type people you talked about, but there are good people as well.....
Personally believe there is a creator, but I do not go to church as much now. I am more spiritual. You would probably be fun to have a debate with. Be nice....
Ok, here you go again!!!!!! yeah it's you.....I am... (show quote)

Pray for lucidity!

We evolved. Evolution is a proven scientific fact. It is observed daily both in the lab and in nature.

Believing there is no god is as foolish as believing there is. Neither position is supported by fact and only supported on faith. Strong atheism is an untenable as strong religious belief.

Most of my atheist friends just refuse to believe in belief. There is a difference.

I don't know if there is or isn't a god, but believing or not believing makes any difference in the outcome of any test or experiment you wish to perform. God is irrelevant.
quote=Scubie Ok, here you go again!!!!!! yeah it'... (show quote)


I guess the reason some of us believe in God is because we refuse to believe something that blew up billions of years ago created all the species of life and its supporting systems on earth.
All the scientific theory is just that...theory. No body was there to record it when it happened, and the oldest life artifact found so far is 100 million or so years old, so they say.

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Apr 24, 2012 07:21:59   #
dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida
 
Thank God Nikon Jon, we have a speller!!! (smile)(i use iespell a great on like spell check! otherwise you would cry at my spelling.)

LarryR,, why is it that we are not allowed to bring up our views when the "other side" has no such restrictions and goes on in their spew-forth? I was brought up that way to.. like never question the preacher at the baptist church when he distorts the scrpture.......... etc. humm we are at times little stetford wife like people... thuggery and overstatement and distortion of words like "people" were great tools in Germany in the 30s..freedom is easily lost if human people follow,,, not to be confused with the people of the phrase "corporations are people too" as Romney said (as did the supreme Court.)

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Apr 24, 2012 07:22:02   #
DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL
 
Scubie .... I could never understand why, when something good happens .... some say "thank God" ..... when something bad happens .... like a child dies of cancer ..... why don't we say thank God .... after all God must have had a reason .... do you think they have a labor shortage in heaven ..... did God really need 6 million people to fill open positions during the 1940's or the more than 58 thousad that died in Veitnam or the more than 4 thosand that died since Iraq .... is there a big condo in the sky being managed by Trump .... maybe all those people that God need to work the assembly line actually go to goodless China .... could be I have a special relationship with my Nikon because my fathe assembled it .... mmmmm maybe ....

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Apr 24, 2012 07:26:16   #
Scubie Loc: Brunswick Georgia
 
Thanks Roger that whole synopsis made so much sense. I agree with every bit of it. We do not actually know there is a God, but I do believe there is, so I accept it. I cannot believe we just happened, crawled out of a swamp and that mass of cells became male and female and eventually us. Some great thinker said Darwins theory simply could not be true because the eye alone is so complicated it would not work, if it evolved. It was said it had to be created intact. For all we know God could be an alien of super inteligence from some other galaxy. As far as astrology, over a period of fifty years I can say this with much truth as I see it. Saturn in bad aspect is one planet that seems to kill and drain relationships that started off good. Of the 3500 plus charts 358 had bad Saturn to Sun aspects. Magi astrology www.magi.com that I use, advocates Saturn as the worst. All 358 have failed or are failing. It seems every other bad aspect is fixable if two people want to work on it. Those seem to be lessons. Your thoughts enlighten me and I do not have all the truths.

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Apr 24, 2012 07:28:02   #
rayford2 Loc: New Bethlehem, PA
 
ngc1514 wrote:
dereksavy wrote:
I believe in GOD. When I die, and it turns out that there isn't one, well I guess I have wasted my time, but can you imagine when I die and there is a GOD.

Ah... good old Pascal's Wager. The only thing missing is the possibility that out of the thousands of gods man has worshiped over the last few thousand years, you may have backed the wrong horse. Looking at it statistically, the odds are excellent that you have, in fact, backed the wrong horse. Man, are people going to surprised should they discover Allah IS god!

And have you ever thought what eternal life would actually be like? The mathematics of infinity were worked out over a century ago by Georg Cantor and are quite definite about a lot of things.

Eternal life is the worst punishment anyone has ever invented. Trapped into an eternity of saying and doing the same things an infinite number of times with nothing to look forward to than another infinite repetitions of the same thing...Even if there are an infinite number of things to say or do, the mathematics of infinity assure us each one of those infinite number of things will be repeated... infinitely.

What do you plan on doing for that infinity of years without becoming bored out of your skull? Even worse, infinitely bored! Most people have trouble finding enough to keep them from being bored on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

What are you going to do?
quote=dereksavy I believe in GOD. When I die, and... (show quote)


Don't worry. The photo industry will keep making new and better things to keep us pacified.
The only boring thing is doing income taxes.

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Apr 24, 2012 07:29:41   #
husker415 Loc: Nebraska
 
Well said my new friend!

MWAC wrote:
dereksavy wrote:
In GOD we trust. Enough said.


Which God? My God, Your God, the gentleman's god across the street? I don't care who, what or if you even worship at all. It does NOT effect your sense of values and how you treat people on a daily basis.

People going to church and worshiping "god" every Sunday morning and looking down on me for being agnostic are the ones running around on their spouses on Wendesday evenings, stealing from their employers on Monday, and have no idea where their children are on Friday Evenings. The US is falling apart simply because people are not taking responsibility for their own actions and trying to pass the buck not because some body doesn't worship the same God as you.
quote=dereksavy In GOD we trust. Enough said. ... (show quote)

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Apr 24, 2012 07:31:18   #
RiverNan Loc: Eastern Pa
 
slight correction if you dont mind DEB.
the 6 million were jews...1.5 million of that 6 were jewish children. Dont forget the 44 million thats right 44 MILLION other people who died in WWII. And that is a low estimate.

DEBJENROB wrote:
Scubie .... I could never understand why, when something good happens .... some say "thank God" ..... when something bad happens .... like a child dies of cancer ..... why don't we say thank God .... after all God must have had a reason .... do you think they have a labor shortage in heaven ..... did God really need 6 million people to fill open positions during the 1940's or the more than 58 thousad that died in Veitnam or the more than 4 thosand that died since Iraq .... is there a big condo in the sky being managed by Trump .... maybe all those people that God need to work the assembly line actually go to goodless China .... could be I have a special relationship with my Nikon because my fathe assembled it .... mmmmm maybe ....
Scubie .... I could never understand why, when som... (show quote)

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Apr 24, 2012 07:39:28   #
Scubie Loc: Brunswick Georgia
 
Wow, would I like to get Rayford2 and Roger in a room to have a conversation. I never thought of eternity that way. Yes, we could be backing the wrong horse. I do hope I can bring my camera and my computer and at least the latest version of photoshop. That way, I can at least find some peace. I do think we are all going to be surprised.
One great thinker said there is actually no heaven, it is merely virtual not real. He went on to say it equates to a dream that lasts as long as we want, in any way we want. Certaily we have all had dreams so real we thought we were there. I wonder if that is possible. I could possibly be happy with that. I find it hard to believe there is a physical heaven that holds everyone that has ever lived, holed up somewhere. Now suppose there is a virtual hell......

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Apr 24, 2012 07:52:02   #
RiverNan Loc: Eastern Pa
 
ummm arent you forgetting someone?

Scubie wrote:
OK MWAC I get it......OK OK OK Quote reply....no one is perfect......

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Apr 24, 2012 07:55:01   #
Add Loc: S.W.Florida
 
I find I agree with MWAC.I also agree I do not like the direction the country is headed.Jefferson said separation of church and state,it is not part of the constitution.If the majority want prayer in public places,it is OK by me,even if I do not have a belief.I feel I have the right values and contribute to the value of my community and to the well being of animals.Other than weddings and funerals,not mine,last went to church on Easter,1951.

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Apr 24, 2012 07:58:09   #
rayford2 Loc: New Bethlehem, PA
 
rivernan wrote:
slight correction if you dont mind DEB.
the 6 million were jews...1.5 million of that 6 were jewish children. Dont forget the 44 million thats right 44 MILLION other people who died in WWII. And that is a low estimate.

DEBJENROB wrote:
Scubie .... I could never understand why, when something good happens .... some say "thank God" ..... when something bad happens .... like a child dies of cancer ..... why don't we say thank God .... after all God must have had a reason .... do you think they have a labor shortage in heaven ..... did God really need 6 million people to fill open positions during the 1940's or the more than 58 thousad that died in Veitnam or the more than 4 thosand that died since Iraq .... is there a big condo in the sky being managed by Trump .... maybe all those people that God need to work the assembly line actually go to goodless China .... could be I have a special relationship with my Nikon because my fathe assembled it .... mmmmm maybe ....
Scubie .... I could never understand why, when som... (show quote)
slight correction if you dont mind DEB. br the 6 m... (show quote)


And that doesn't include the victims of Pol Pot, Stalin and other "leaders".

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Apr 24, 2012 07:59:23   #
konica135 Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
 
MsJ wrote:
Gee...when did you speak to Thomas Jefferson personally to ask exactly what he meant?
My blood boils only when short-sighted people want me to be conservative. Thanks, but NO thanks! :)
You have a great day, too! ;)


Maybe the best answer could come from reading John Locke.

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Apr 24, 2012 08:10:19   #
woodworker236 Loc: Western, Pennsylvania Home of the first JEEP
 
I for one think you are right on the money. We had better wake up in this country before we have nothing left. We need to get our country back on the right road before GOD turns his back on all of us.

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Apr 24, 2012 08:13:06   #
sploppert Loc: Rochester, NY
 
I find it funny that "Athiests" have no values but the majority of my friends who have been caught cheating on their spouse or caught their spouse cheating on them are "god fearing christians" who go to church every Sunday.

Sounds like you need to meet a better class of friends

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