Dave, The "Golden Rule" is not based on humanism. In fact, humanism has nothing to do with morals or the Golden rule.

1.an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.

Jesus uttered the Golden Rule, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and to love others as you would love yourself. Who do you give credit to?

Humanist are self centered and only love themselves. Yes, atheist can have morals and a good character but the problem with your morals is that you are at liberty to change your "MORALS" at your whim were as in Christianity the Morals or the Laws of God never change. You Dave, rationalize your morals to fit your own needs.

Ok...this thread has gone on for several pages. My question was not about religion. In fact it was directed at the contingent of atheists and agnostics here on UHH.

If Christians, Jews, etc. have been taught the Bible, Torah, etc. to provide a groundwork and common reference point for their moral compass, then where do atheists/agnostics turn for their common reference point?

So far I've got one person that believes we are born with it. Others have implied life experience is at play. I haven't seen any of the atheist/agnostic crowd say that religious teachings (Old, New, or otherwise) instilled a common belief (eg. golden rule). I also haven't seen anyone mention where they do get this from (which was the point of this thread), save the life's cumulative experience model. I personally would like to think some of you had morals and scruples before you were 35.

So where do atheists go? Neitche, Descartes, Spinoza, Voltaire, Thoreau, Bugs Bunny, Moe, Larry, and Curly, Jim Morrison, Frank Zappa? Who?

I'm not going to respond to any answers that fail to provide an answer to that question.

Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self proclaimed atheist regarding morals. Now most of us are taught right from wrong by our parents but also from other parts of or upbringing. Of course one of the major influences is religion. Pretty much each religion has written guidelines to live your life by...thou shalt not steal, lie, kill, etc.

Since atheists reject religion, can it be safe to say that they also reject these written guidelines (Bible, Torah, Koran, etc.)?

Where exactly do they build the foundation of their "morality"?

Now, now Bangee, it is you who are the hypocrite in this instance. Where I in all modesty admit to not being able to prove the unprovable, you steadfastly stand by an equally unprovable tho contrarian view that there is such a creature. From whence did you gain the evidence that proves conclusively that god does exist? You may if you like invite him (I know you believe it is a him, in your own image) to lunch. I'll gladly pick up the tab. Prove it for me Bangee and I will retract my calling you a hypocrite and shout hallejulah in rejoice and declare to the world that I am then a believer. That should be fair. I have nothing to prove since I readily admit I am unable to do so. You on the other hand claim you can. So ... prove it.

Perhaps I worded my statement wrong. I meant to say that Atheists value human principles and practice the golden rule. Regardless, we have a moral compass one that I believe to be superior to the bible. My morality is based on my growing understanding of the human condition and how best to respond to it in a compassionate way. I'm able to modify for the better. Bangee, please don't drag out those tired old arguments about how I can justify all kinds of mischief on a whim, that's nonsense. Atheists are thoughtful, introspective people and don't change their standards just to accommodate what you think of as sin. My standards are Not based on my needs but rather on what I think is right, proper, and equitable. I could give a litany of examples but it serves no purpose.

When I mentioned the golden rule it was just to sumerize a moral system and to point out that it's origins are not Christian.

When you say gods laws never change do you include the ones about not eating pork or shell fish? Or the ones about giving away your riches to the poor? How about slave ownership and the proper role of woman. Is blending different fabrics sinful or picking up sticks on the Sabbath? Speeking of the Sabbath, I see thousands of Christians breaking the Sabbath every Saturday. I contend that we break gods rules all the time we just chose the ones we want to observe.

I saw that you mentioned the New Covenant in another post does that mean we can scrap the ten commandments?

About the Covenant of God. Have you at any time in your life ever consider yourself under the old Covenant? The Ten Commandments where given to the Jews. Jesus fulfilled the old Covenant by His blood in that He was crucified. Jesus became the New Covenant in blood. BTW: Jesus was never a Christian. He remains a Jew. Christian is just a name given to those who follow Jesus.

Christians are not under the Ten Commandments. We are freed from the Commandments by grace in the name of Jesus Christ. I know that you do not understand any of what I've said. Unless you are a Christian it wouldn't matter any way.
I have been following this thread with no intention of getting involved. But after your comment I must. I find your response one of the most pompous statements I have ever seen. You are playing my religeon is better than your religeon. Do you really believe that only your religious beleifs are valid? The Muslims that behead Christians believe the moral teachings of their religion-are they then moral, because their religion tells them that they are? I have observed that often the most immoral people are fierce adherents to their religion. Wars have been fought over nothing more than my religion is more righteous than your religion. We humans, with all our education, and with all our morals(from wherever they came) are still apes at the waterhole. We are one of the few species that kill each other for reasons that have nothing to do with food or survival. M y dogs have exhibited better morals than most humans.
How you believe that your morals to be superior to the bible, a book that you have no understanding of is beyond me.

I have been following this thread with no intention of getting involved. But after your comment I must. I find your response one of the most pompous statements I have ever seen. You are playing my religeon is better than your religeon. Do you really believe that only your religious beleifs are valid? The Muslims that behead Christians believe the moral teachings of their religion-are they then moral, because their religion tells them that they are? I have observed that often the most immoral people are fierce adherents to their religion. Wars have been fought over nothing more than my religion is more righteous than your religion. We humans, with all our education, and with all our morals(from wherever they came) are still apes at the waterhole. We are one of the few species that kill each other for reasons that have nothing to do with food or survival. M y dogs have exhibited better morals than most humans.

Ok...this thread has gone on for several pages. My question was not about religion. In fact it was directed at the contingent of atheists and agnostics here on UHH.

If Christians, Jews, etc. have been taught the Bible, Torah, etc. to provide a groundwork and common reference point for their moral compass, then where do atheists/agnostics turn for their common reference point?

So far I've got one person that believes we are born with it. Others have implied life experience is at play. I haven't seen any of the atheist/agnostic crowd say that religious teachings (Old, New, or otherwise) instilled a common belief (eg. golden rule). I also haven't seen anyone mention where they do get this from (which was the point of this thread), save the life's cumulative experience model. I personally would like to think some of you had morals and scruples before you were 35.

So where do atheists go? Neitche, Descartes, Spinoza, Voltaire, Thoreau, Bugs Bunny, Moe, Larry, and Curly, Jim Morrison, Frank Zappa? Who?

I'm not going to respond to any answers that fail to provide an answer to that question.

Thank you Bangee, I totally agree with that statement. Now, please, if you also believe what you wrote, shut up and quit preaching to us about some pipe dream about what a "god" we do not believe exists said. You, Jesus Christ and your mutterings about what "god" did and said are a royal pain in the ass. Give your opinion on whatever you like except "god". We think it is nonsense and we do not care to be preached to.

We who are Atheists or Agnostics like ourselves as we are and many others like us as well. Just pray quietly. We do not care to hear you. It is an intrusion into our space. None of us preach to you about the non existence of "god" we merely bring it up in response to your pontifications. Shut up, please or just preach to your own choir. They will be eager to hear what you have to say.