Moral ground - where do you get that? Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self proclaimed atheist regarding morals. Now most of us are taught right from wrong by our parents but...

hondo812 Loc: Massachusetts

Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self proclaimed atheist regarding morals. Now most of us are taught right from wrong by our parents but also from other parts of or upbringing. Of course one of the major influences is religion. Pretty much each religion has written guidelines to live your life by...thou shalt not steal, lie, k**l, etc.

Since atheists reject religion, can it be safe to say that they also reject these written guidelines (Bible, Torah, Koran, etc.)?

Where exactly do they build the foundation of their "morality"?

DaveO Loc: Northeast CT

I have known many people who came name their religion but in no way,shape or form practice it. Some have never had, nor had their parents, any formal study, bible reading, etc.

Many parents are able to instill right from wrong,politeness,tolerance,respect and so on in their children with no reference to God or doctrine. At least it seems that way. Some may name this a morality and I would deem it possible to achieve without following or acknowledging a God or religion.

Conversely, there are many with a strong religious existence that are completely immoral in thought word and deed.

So, is morality a product of a thing we call a conscience?
Where does the conscience come from. Do we have to have religion to have a conscience? Is a conscience developed only if we have a religion?

green Loc: 22.1749611,-159.646704,20

no, that is a false assumption.

morality is developed innately as we experience pain and pleasure and understand that others also experience pain and pleasure.

most religious morality originally comes from practicality

1) Do no K**l people (that will decrease the tribe and cause pain and suffering)
2) etc...

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

hondo812 wrote:

Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self procl... (show quote)

Morals and religion can be mutually exclusive of one another. I think one can be extremely moral and have no religious background or beliefs. It is also quite possible to have someone professing to being very religious and be morally corrupt. One does not imply the other.
--Bob

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

I'm an Atheist and I don't depend on punishment from the invisible man in the sky to determine what is wrong.
Non religious people have morals, just like religious people and both can be good, bad or somewhere in between.
Unfortunately as people become more religious they seem to be less tolerant. On the other hand, once you realize there is no god you see yourself as responsible for your own behaviors and usually become more tolerant of others.
I for one have zero feelings about whether or not you are religious as long as you don't try to make your religion rule my life.

Kombiguy Loc: Cedar Rapids, IA

Without religion, it seems to me, it would be very easy to devolve into a moral utilitarianism. K**l a baby if it's inconvenient; steal because the government will bail out the victims; l**t because some guy I knew was shot.
Not all atheists are of this type; it just seems to me it's easier to go that way if one is.

green Loc: 22.1749611,-159.646704,20

Kombiguy wrote:

Without religion, it seems to me, it would be very easy to devolve into a moral utilitarianism. K**l a baby if it's inconvenient; steal because the government will bail out the victims; l**t because some guy I knew was shot.
Not all atheists are of this type; it just seems to me it's easier to go that way if one is.

so you're saying that if someone were contemplating k*****g a child for the sake of expediency...

fear of retribution from a supernatural being is a prime consideration?

hondo812 Loc: Massachusetts

green wrote:

so you're saying that if someone were contemplating k*****g a child for the sake of expediency...

fear of retribution from a supernatural being is a prime consideration?

I'm not answering for him.

It seems to me that if you are not in some way tethered to the tenets of a religion or similar doctrine that your moral compass is prone to wh**ever is convenient to you in that particular situation. In other words, your compass is fluid instead of grounded. You are kind of making it up as you go.

BTW...per one of the fundamental teachings of Christianity, we are all flawed. It's up to each of us to accept that we are flawed yet strive to be better every day. And no, I am not a practicing Christian (i.e. attend church, thump a bible, kneel and pray, etc.)

So, if your compass doesn't point to the teachings of Jesus, where does it point? What is an atheists North Star?

GeorgeH Loc: Jonesboro, GA

Kombiguy wrote:

Without religion, it seems to me, it would be very easy to devolve into a moral utilitarianism. K**l a baby if it's inconvenient; steal because the government will bail out the victims; l**t because some guy I knew was shot.
Not all atheists are of this type; it just seems to me it's easier to go that way if one is.

Sad to say many religions divide human kind into us and them; "them" all too often carries the implication of unworthiness. Its much easier to ens***e or slay the "other," who is by definition unworthy.

I'd guess that, given demographics, most l**ters would call themselves religious, in this country they'd probably maintain that they were Christian.

You might want to consider Albert Schweitzer. Here's some information on his "theology." http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1834

And another: http://www.equip.org/article/albert-schweitzer/

Note that Schwietzer, while ordained as a Lutheran curate and having a PhD in theology, was hardly Christian by the usual definition. Nor was he a theist. I would hope that we all might agree that he lived an exemplary, moral life.

green Loc: 22.1749611,-159.646704,20

hondo812 wrote:

I'm not answering for him. br br It seems to me t... (show quote)

I am not an atheist, nor even an agnostic, and I am morally aligned with the teachings of Jesus, if not the Bible... I am personally convinced that there is a God, though I don't see God as a personality outside myself, but rather as an aspect of my highest self... a place where I am one with everyone's highest self. Thoughts and dreams change the world, choose love over fear.

RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida

hondo812 wrote:

Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self procl... (show quote)

Humanism has been around a long time.

Kombiguy Loc: Cedar Rapids, IA

green wrote:

so you're saying that if someone were contemplating k*****g a child for the sake of expediency...

fear of retribution from a supernatural being is a prime consideration?

No, I'm saying that people with serious religious scruples would be less likely to k**l a child than someone whose morality is directed primarily by expedience.

Kombiguy Loc: Cedar Rapids, IA

GeorgeH wrote:

Sad to say many religions divide human kind into u... (show quote)

I think you read way too much into my comment.

taffthetooth Loc: U.K

hondo812 wrote:

Ok, I was struck by a post I saw from a self procl... (show quote)

Atheism's great dilemma ( though the atheists here will deny this )
is that you can not get subjective moral values without God.
The Judao/Christian pov is that God has written himself into every human heart, that is why all cultures have the "golden rule" Now I'm not saying that atheists cant be moral (in fact they out do some so called christian here).

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Morals change from generation to generation. We either accept or reject our parents teaching or follow their examples. We are all taught right from wrong either by our parents or from our fellow mankind and especially by the law of the land. Does a thief know that stealing is wrong or does he not care?

There is God's morals which never changes and there is man's moral which change with time to suit the wants and the desires of society. Man's morals is not necessarily a good thing because what was taboo yesterday is acceptable today, depending on one's point of view of course.