imagesintime Loc: small town, mid-America

Nope. You get to eat the energy bars you brought with you. At the end of the 12-14 hour day you will be a tired puppy.

gvanschaick Loc: Lake Hopatcong

Lots of good suggestions here. I must admit I would be worry if you say the first shooter does not have a clue. But here are a couple suggestions: 1. Use flash outdoors, use an external flash, borrow one if you do not have one. 2. spend a few hours looking up bounce flash. Even outdoors there may be opportunity to bounce the flash. 3. Use the 55mm setting almost exclusively, move yourself, not the lens 4. Shoot for the eyes, make sure the eyes are in focus. Then shoot wide enough so the 1st shooter can crop. 5. Keep your eyes moving. Look for groups of people who are taking photos with the cell phones and get in the middle of that group...get use the term "wait, don't move, one more shot" 6. If you camera does this, Meter on the white dress and hold that meter while you move the camera. That way you can hold the detail in the white dress. 7. You should have a second camera yourself, prepare for anything to go wrong. 8. Take two or three shots of any photo, someone will always blink at the wrong moment. 9. Learn to use manual settings. For people moving you do not want the camera to choose 1/60 second and you probably do not want the camera to choose the widest aperture. What I always try and do is for any given situation, shoot one shot in auto, look at the settings, go to manual and adjust. Good luck

GENorkus Loc: Washington Twp, Michigan

Normally this is a given. Since both of you are clueless start looking around for examples and to get some good ideas.

Be sure not to look like you are clueless at the wedding! If you remember the antiperspirant commercial, don't let them see you sweat!

Unless you plan a few creative shots, I doubt you'll have the time to be swapping lenses very much.

Even if you are nervous to start with, have fun. Enjoy what your doing. That's a sure way to put the b&g at ease which makes your job much more enjoyable!

Rongnongno Loc: FL

And no one thinks of the couple who is dealing with two ignoramus. No wonder more and more folks feel like they can hire anyone off the street. Ah, oh, yeah, they just did.

What would you suggest to the couple? Keep these two or seek a more experienced photographer?

Then again it may also be 'el cheapo' type of folks who in the end will give more trouble than it was worth to shoot this wedding. Remember that penny pinching folks want both price and superior quality/service.

To the op:
"You are lucky not to be in charge. I suggest you tell your 'first violist' to hire a lawyer already!!!

greg vescuso Loc: Ozark,Mo.

First off you will shooting this wedding out side that will help with lighting. Now since you will be shooting at a campground shade will be your friend you will need a external flash and if you don't have 3 months to start learning how to us the flash in conjunction with manual mode on the camera I would suggest you use your program mode with your flash set to ettl. This means you will need at least a ex430 flash. You will want your flash to work as a fill so you will have to add just your flash compensation I would adjust it on the flash. When in your program mode use your center focus point and focus on the eyes. As said be careful not to blow out the wedding dress because the detail is very difficult to recover unless you shoot in raw ( " I would shoot in raw just for this reason to be able to recover any blown out detail in the wedding dress " the bride has spent a lot of money for fine beading and lace detail that they want to see in there pictures )
Now a real problem you will run into shooting at a campground is shadows you will have harsh shadows partially covering subjects faces from a gazebo or even worse leaves from the trees you will not be able to fix these shots latter so be aware and move your subject to covered shade or open shade if you have to. If you have a lot of experience shooting in av or tv mode these modes will give you more control but if you don't this is not the time to learn you need to learn before the weeding and use what you are most comfortable with. Good luck and if you need any help PM. Me.
If you want help without people being negative about you and the first shooter not being experienced then post in the wedding photography section there are a lot of good wedding photographers there that will help you. Just go to bottom of the list and click all and the wedding forum is all the way at the bottom.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Under those circumstances, and given both a #1 and a #2 without a clue, it sounds like the celebrants aren't expecting more than documentation. Go for it and document whatever you can.

Suggestions:
Charge all your batteries the night before.
Carry a spare battery for the camera and keep your charger where you can get at it if you have to change batteries so you can recharge the old one while using the spare.
If you use an external flash, carry spare batteries for that too.
Carry spare memory cards.
If you normally shoot jpg, switch to raw+jpg if your camera has that capability. Raw files are much easier to correct for bad exposure than jpgs. If you camera doesn't do raw+jpg, consider using raw only. The raw file has an embedded jpg which you can easily extract with free software. The only downside to this approach is that it takes some time to do the extraction. However, your camera's monitor will allow you to view the image from the raw file.
Both #1 and #2 should talk to the celebrants beforehand and find out what they expect.
Typically, the #2 position includes the "gofer" responsibility, i.e. you have to go get all the people required for a group shot and help set things up for #1.
Whenever you are taking a group shot, take several copies. People make unexpected strange faces. Taking several shots increases the possibility that everyone will look good. (or at least everyone will look good in at least one shot so you can swap heads in photoshop to collect all the good-looking faces into one shot).
This is your friends' wedding. Enjoy yourself. Don't stress out.

As noted, the wedding's at a campground. The celebrants have selected a photographer without experience. It sounds to me like a really low budget wedding. If they don't like the results, they can always do it again since the first time didn't cost much. And that gives everyone an excuse for another party!

gmb3 Loc: Coastal CenCal

Interestingly enough, I have been fed the same food the guests are fed at every event I have shot that has food. Maybe it's a Califas thing.

However, I never got to eat with the guests. lol

Do take your own water though and carry some with you. You may not get a water break when the festivities start to crank.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

My first suggestion is to go here http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/section_list.jsp
Scroll to the bottom and subscribe to the wedding photography section.

Our number one rule is no "Negative Nellies" trying to talk you out of shooting weddings. We have several people that combined have hundreds of years of experience that are happy to help.

My second suggestion is to consider renting a lens. If you can find it, for a crop sensor, the Sigma 50-150 2.8 lens gives you the same field of view as the 70-200 (well really close), which is the long end of one of the "holy trinity" of lenses. As this will be outside, your 18-55 mm, will be fairly close to the 24-70 reach of the holy trinity. Between those two lenses, you would cover just about anything you need. I always suggest renting a few lenses before actually pulling the trigger.

Are you paid, or unpaid? (not to be nosey) You may want to ask the first shooter if you are going to be covered under his liability insurance. If not, you can get a one time event insurance policy very cheap.

Now, if you are unpaid, then technically you aren't any more liable than any other guest. If you are paid, you really need to find these things out.

One of the main things as a second shooter is that you will probably be directed anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about studying shot lists, etc. It is the first shooter's responsibility to let you know exactly what they expect. Don't be afraid to go above and beyond what they ask for, but the first rule of being a second shooter is to never get in the way of the first shooter. You don't want to be in 1/2 the shots.

We are bringing along a new "intern/second shooter" this weekend for a huge event, he'll actually be shooter #4. The wedding/reception is spread out over 4 rooms in a downtown hotel/reception area. Most times they rent out one hall per couple, this family rented out the whole floor.

I have specific instructions for everyone, and nobody has to worry that they won't know what to do.

Communication is key.

Chefneil

AFTER EVENT NOTES:

Lupe Perez came up to me yesterday and asked if I'd like to be second shooter at a wedding. I thought Cool! First time for everything.

So I spent the first part of the afternoon getting my shit together—camera stuff, the rest of everything is way too hard. Finally, I got going and then the rain began to fall. I got soaked, but the gear was dry. I finally found my way to the road to the camp ground. Then I had to ride across a river to get to the site. I think water almost got into the exhaust pipes of the bike. I let the bike run for a minute to dry out.

Lupe asked me WTH when he got to the river!

All I had was my 50 and 18-55. The 55-250 is in the shop, that's gonna cost a bit to fix. At any rate, I started shooting with what I had. I was severely handicapped, but got some good shots anyhow. I was invited to this gig mere hours before it started and had NO chance to get a good lens for it, so I had to deal with what I had.

Lessons
1. Don't talk to the subjects. Lupe did not like that I asked someone to look at me. I guess that is a good lesson, if we start talking to them too much then they may pose. This is a good rule and I may change it a little. Before starting to take a lot of shots, I want to introduce myself to key people and get a feel for them and their mood. For instance, The bride did not want me to take any of her before she had her make up on and I tried to respect that and only get stealthy shots of her.
2. The 18-55 lens kinda sucks for anything further than 20 feet. It is soft and difficult to focus. There were many well composed images that did not make the cut because of image quality. Though I am able to hold it at a very slow shutter speed.
3. Kids are great. I got a few of one toddler, ADORABLE! I was smart and got really close and low for him.
4. People will pose for you, but you have to be ready, they will not hold it for long. The slow shutter release (3 shot bursts) is great for this.
5. Kids are fun, but again you have to be ready .

Observations

So as I said before, I am down a lens, the 55-250. Something about the gasket being out of alignment. Its gonna coast money to get it right...big sigh. Lupe said he had longer lenses. So everything would be fine, and it was.

I showed up on the bike and no one was quite sure what to do about me. Good thing I did not wear my leather. After we got our hi are you's done I started taking pictures.

Now, these are kids just graduating from Warren Wilson, so they were very young and pretty---lots of money running around too. The field was open with the sound of a stream filling the air. The sky kept threatening to open up, but never quite did. When the sun did tease us the world was filled with golden light and the shadows made a mystery of the darkened woods.

The bride was beautiful with her feathered baby blue hair, Emma. James handsome, his hair slicked back either from grease or sweat, I am not sure. They looked good together.

The people were all very gracious and I felt no tension anyplace. I felt like everyone was quite happy for the occasion. Even the bride did not show any real signs of stress, though I could see she was excited. I wish there had been more kids there because they are so dynamic and fun to photograph. I really felt like a team effort was being made by all. All the bride’s maids and friends were helping to set up the eating area and ceremony "Chapel." The groom's friends were setting up the stage for music. I think they were going to dance and also they had a hole hooper too. I wish I could have stayed, but that stream after dark was daunting.

The Priestess was a lady whom I knew from the past and we were able to communicate well. And because of that she and I could strategize picture taking during the ceremony. Yes, we were allowed to take them during the MOMENT. And I think I got a few good shots. Now I all I have to do is go through them all (300+) to find the best of the best!

This was volunteer gig, so there was no real pressure. I guess the original photographer bailed for some reason, so Lupe got the call. Then he called me. I signed no contracts, nor did I receive any recompense of any kind. I knew this from the outset and have no worries about it. So because of that I feel I have rights to everything I did.

So fellow UHHers what do you think?

Well, that's it on my notes.


Thanks everyone for you suggestions, they helped in ways I may not even know.

olc

gmb3 Loc: Coastal CenCal

The 11TH hour gig. Tough. It seemed that all went well.

Are they buying books or are the digi files turned over to them? If they are buying, your success will be measurable.

Was Lupe THE #1 or just the other photographer? If he was the #1, it seems, to me, that the comms were not there. There is a definite hierarchy about who shoots what.

When I was shooting weddings, the two lens I depended on were my 80mm and 150mm. The 50mm and 250mm were there but for the special shots. Oh, those were Hassy lenses.

I wouldn't have shown up on a bike unless I knew the couple REALLY well. But that's me.

Overall, it seems it went OK.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

OK olc, not sure I agree with some of what Lupe said to you, but if you were second shooter, glad you listened.

My question is, do you now have a taste for the "dark side?"

We wedding photographers tend to get beat upon by some others, it takes a special breed to like the craziness that goes on, the challenges, the fun, the drunks, the demands...Ooooh, now I'm all excited about Saturday :thumbup: I have another one scheduled.

If you think you are nuts enough to want to pursue wedding photography, refer to my other post and visit the wedding photography section. You won't get beat up on there.

When I said I don't agree with everything you said you learned, that's OK, we all have our own styles. Instead of taking Lupe's advice as the only way to do it.... learn what YOUR style is. Frankly, one thing, NOTHING is more boring to me than a bunch of shots with people not looking at you. OF COURSE you should speak to guests. You want everyone to look as fabulous as they can. When they see how good they look in their friend's or family member's wedding photos, they may want to hire you for something as well. I try to approach each person and each shot, as if THEY are my customer. (hopefully, some day they will be.)

Of course, Lupe has another style, and well....we'll just disagree.

Hope to see you in our neck of the woods (wedding photography forum) some time.